Which of these four health care system models do you prefer and why?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 03:16:05 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Individual Politics (Moderator: The Dowager Mod)
  Which of these four health care system models do you prefer and why?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2
Poll
Question: Which health care system model do you prefer?
#1
The Beveridge Model
 
#2
The Bismarck Model
 
#3
The National Health Insurance Model
 
#4
The Out-of-Pocket Model
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 44

Author Topic: Which of these four health care system models do you prefer and why?  (Read 7880 times)
greenforest32
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,625


Political Matrix
E: -7.94, S: -8.43

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: July 31, 2012, 06:31:05 AM »

Short definitions: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/countries/models.html
Logged
afleitch
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,835


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2012, 07:04:49 AM »

The Beveridge Model. It's what I'm used to so I'm not in a position to comment on other models.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,963
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2012, 07:05:53 AM »

The British NHS is really one of the greatest political conceptions of the twentieth century.
Logged
Vosem
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,624
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.13, S: -6.09

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2012, 07:13:58 AM »

I voted Out-of-Pocket, since that's closest to what I want, though I don't believe in denying healthcare to someone who can't pay (who should then be indebted to the hospital, except for a few special groups which could be provided insurance by the government -- veterans, the elderly who cannot provide for themselves, children under 18 whose parents cannot provide for them, and pregnant women who cannot provide for themselves).

Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,477
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2012, 07:47:26 AM »

I voted Out-of-Pocket, since that's closest to what I want, though I don't believe in denying healthcare to someone who can't pay (who should then be indebted to the hospital, except for a few special groups which could be provided insurance by the government -- veterans, the elderly who cannot provide for themselves, children under 18 whose parents cannot provide for them, and pregnant women who cannot provide for themselves).

The fact that you "don't believe in denying healthcare to someone who can't pay" doesn't change the fact that that is the practical effect of the policies you support.
Logged
Vosem
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,624
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.13, S: -6.09

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2012, 08:37:35 AM »

I voted Out-of-Pocket, since that's closest to what I want, though I don't believe in denying healthcare to someone who can't pay (who should then be indebted to the hospital, except for a few special groups which could be provided insurance by the government -- veterans, the elderly who cannot provide for themselves, children under 18 whose parents cannot provide for them, and pregnant women who cannot provide for themselves).

The fact that you "don't believe in denying healthcare to someone who can't pay" doesn't change the fact that that is the practical effect of the policies you support.

I've already pointed out that universal healthcare pretty much always causes a degradation in quality, which is why I think the solution to the healthcare crisis would be to reform the way you pay hospitals, not to have the government do it for you, which not only do I think would cause quality to decline but would also set a very dangerous precedent. It is better, and fairer, to have some people have better-quality care than others instead of everybody having the same mediocre care. But let's finish the gay Republican debate first -- this is something both of us have argued dozens of times, whereas that one is more outlandish.
Logged
Supersonic
SupersonicVenue
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,162
United Kingdom


Political Matrix
E: 4.90, S: 0.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2012, 10:45:45 AM »

A move to the National Health Insurance model would be my ideal system, despite the glorification of the NHS at the Olympic Opening Ceremony.
Logged
Redalgo
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,681
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2012, 11:30:09 AM »
« Edited: July 31, 2012, 11:39:23 AM by Redalgo »

Seeing as I look most favorably on the health care system of France, I voted the "Bismarck Model." Still, it's worth bearing in mind I am influenced by more than one model and tend to mix them a bit.

From what I understand (which may of course be flawed), there is public insurance for everyone but co-pays which reduce the detrimental impact of moral hazard. The state reimburses some of those costs (35%-100%) in some instances in an effort to encourage folks to take cost-effective medications, seek preventative care, and get treatment for chronic conditions that will otherwise worsen in their severity over time - which threatens to become more financially burdensome for both the system and afflicted individuals. The public plan is only basic, so folks get supplementary insurance privately (often through their employers). People who cannot afford it receive state aid. There are public and private hospitals and care providers alike from among which one may choose and individuals are given discretion in deciding whether to pay for higher qualities of health care.

Then again, it would be quite helpful for me if someone from France were to explain some of the pros and cons of their health care system, seeing as I have only read about it through American authors and am almost surely overlooking a few important considerations.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,963
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2012, 11:45:53 AM »

Seeing as I look most favorably on the health care system of France, I voted the "Bismarck Model." Still, it's worth bearing in mind I am influenced by more than one model and tend to mix them a bit.

From what I understand (which may of course be flawed), there is public insurance for everyone but co-pays which reduce the detrimental impact of moral hazard. The state reimburses some of those costs (35%-100%) in some instances in an effort to encourage folks to take cost-effective medications, seek preventative care, and get treatment for chronic conditions that will otherwise worsen in their severity over time (which threaten to become more financially burdensome for both the system and afflicted individuals). The public plan is only basic, so most folks get supplementary insurance privately through their employers. People who cannot afford it receive state assistance. There are public and private hospitals and care providers alike from among which one may choose.

Then again, it would be quite helpful for me if someone from France were to explain some of the pros and cons of their health care system, seeing as I have only read about it through American authors.

You summed up the main traits and I don't really know the details of the French system. One of the recurring problems pointed out about the French system is the tendency of doctors to prescribe excessively. Since they are reimbursed by a public insurance, patients tend to ask for medicines even in cases they are not needed. And since doctors exert their profession privately, they tend to second their "clients"' desires. That's why recent reforms have focused on putting a heavier burden on the purchaser, with the obvious problem that poorer people might actually renounce to useful medical acts. The health insurance agency (like the other branches of France's social insurance agency) also has a pretty huge and ever-increasing deficit since the early 2000s.

There is also an issue with the universal insurance for the poorer, the so-called CMU. It seems that reimbursements through the CMU are slow to come, and many doctors outright refuse to perform medical acts to the people covered by it (even though it is illegal).

In short, it's not a perfect system, but it works relatively well and allows to erase most of health-related inequalities. I still prefer the British model, though.
Logged
Napoleon
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,892


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2012, 12:04:55 PM »

Like Redalgo, I picked the Bismarck model.
Logged
TNF
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,440


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2012, 01:18:29 PM »

The Beveridge model is my ideal, but I think that the Bismarck model or the National health insurance model are the most likely end games for the United States.
Logged
Lief 🗽
Lief
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 44,876


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2012, 01:41:34 PM »

The Bismarck model has been the most successful at expanding coverage universally, keeping costs downs, and protecting the quality of healthcare.
Logged
World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,249


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2012, 02:28:21 PM »

Bismarck model with a National Health Insurance model-esque public option, which I believe is the case in Israel, Japan, and a few other countries.
Logged
H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
Alfred F. Jones
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,075
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2012, 03:18:12 PM »

NHI.
Logged
courts
Ghost_white
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,466
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2012, 03:18:31 PM »

I voted Out-of-Pocket, since that's closest to what I want, though I don't believe in denying healthcare to someone who can't pay (who should then be indebted to the hospital, except for a few special groups which could be provided insurance by the government -- veterans, the elderly who cannot provide for themselves, children under 18 whose parents cannot provide for them, and pregnant women who cannot provide for themselves).

The fact that you "don't believe in denying healthcare to someone who can't pay" doesn't change the fact that that is the practical effect of the policies you support.

I've already pointed out that universal healthcare pretty much always causes a degradation in quality, which is why I think the solution to the healthcare crisis would be to reform the way you pay hospitals, not to have the government do it for you, which not only do I think would cause quality to decline but would also set a very dangerous precedent. It is better, and fairer, to have some people have better-quality care than others instead of everybody having the same mediocre care. But let's finish the gay Republican debate first -- this is something both of us have argued dozens of times, whereas that one is more outlandish.
nothing about either of your posts makes any sense.
Logged
Dereich
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,892


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2012, 08:00:04 PM »

I could never vote for the Beveridge model, just because it leave the capacity for politics to hurt peoples healthcare, a la the Yes, Minister episode http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Compassionate_Society
Logged
TheDeadFlagBlues
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,990
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2012, 09:11:57 PM »

Bismarck model with a National Health Insurance model-esque public option
Logged
Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,489
Australia


Political Matrix
E: -2.71, S: -5.22

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2012, 09:16:31 PM »

I love how people who don't live in a universal healthcare system talk about how bad things are for those of us who do...

The overall "quality" ie, prestige of care is higher in the US (the more money you have, the better access and outcomes you have)... however, if you look at the overall health outcomes of universal systems, they are higher than the US. Why? because access is guaranteed and people generally have the assurance that if they're sick, they don't have to worry about not being able to pay for their treatment. The more people have access to quality care, the better the outcomes will be.

I'm extremely happy to live with the system I do.
Logged
Yelnoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,148
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2012, 09:24:30 PM »

Could some of our Canadians talk about the National Health Insurance model?
Logged
Fmr President & Senator Polnut
polnut
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,489
Australia


Political Matrix
E: -2.71, S: -5.22

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2012, 09:26:29 PM »

Could some of our Canadians talk about the National Health Insurance model?

Australia uses the NHI model...
Logged
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,174
Norway


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.48

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2012, 10:05:07 PM »

I went with Bismarck, but would someone mind listing the pros and cons of these?
Logged
TheDeadFlagBlues
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,990
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2012, 10:08:22 PM »

Could some of our Canadians talk about the National Health Insurance model?

Australia uses the NHI model...

One of the many reasons why Gough Whitlam is my favorite PM.
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,477
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2012, 10:28:43 PM »

Ideally I would like the Beveridge model but a robust NHI model at least as a basic option is an absolute minimum even in a Bismarck style of system.
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,157
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2012, 10:42:45 PM »

Bismarck, which is what Obamacare is edging us toward.
Logged
Lief 🗽
Lief
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 44,876


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2012, 02:57:42 AM »

I went with Bismarck, but would someone mind listing the pros and cons of these?

This is a fantastic (and easily read) book if you're interested: http://www.amazon.com/The-Healing-America-Global-Cheaper/dp/1594202346
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.063 seconds with 15 queries.