Reid: Bain Investor Told Me That Mitt Romney 'Didn't Pay Any Taxes For 10 Years'

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Mondale, that's a garbage standard to hold up. I'm not a birther, but I wasn't there to see little Barrie exit his mom's uterus in Hawaii, so I don't know that he's really a natural born citizen.

I don't actually believe he was born in Kenya. So do you really, honestly believe Mitt Romney paid NO TAXES FOR TEN YEARS? Come on.

Obama has provided his long-form birth certificate.

But you didn't see him at the moment of his birth.

"Ergo, you don't know."

Anyhow, I'm not getting much into this. I got into a dumb argument yesterday where people knew exactly what I meant but were pressing the point anyway. Bottom line: I understand why liberals are pretending they believe Mitt Romney never paid tax. I also understand (or hope) that many of them aren't naive enough to actually believe it.

You're a little on the slow side aren't you?

The rumour that Obama wasn't born in the US was dismissed with the release of his birth certificates.

The rumour that Romney paid no taxes for 10 can't be dismissed until he releases his tax returns. As long as he's unwilling to release his tax returns he's inviting more of these rumours.

So you're conceding that questions about Obama's place of birth were legitimate enough to warrant the calls for his birth certificate?

What I'm talking about is Mondale's standard that you've got to "know" for sure. Except you can't know anything for sure, even with official documents, because people will still challenge their veracity. Baseless conspiracies are never put to rest.

[milhouse24]

Liberals are just grasping at any issue that takes voters minds off the economy; and make Romney seem like an evil wall street capitalist shark. 

I'll tell you what is in Romney's tax returns, probably the same stuff that was in the past 2 years!  Since 2008, he has been a private citizen without a full time job.  His income is derived from speeches and investments.  Should he disclose every investment he's made in his lifetime?  Maybe or maybe not. 

He's been involved with a lot of businesses; and some of those takeovers have been controversial.  Liberals are just trying to grab onto anything controversial that would make Romney look bad based on his past investments, and business operations. 

He probably has paid less in Income tax because he hasn't had a full time job since 2002.  Most of his taxes are capital gains.  It might seem lower than the average middle class worker, but that is the nature of the industry he was working in.  Romney retired from full-time work in 2002, so why would he have to pay taxes if he had very limited income tax? 

[Comrade Funk]

Liberals are just grasping at any issue that takes voters minds off the economy; and make Romney seem like an evil wall street capitalist shark. 

I'll tell you what is in Romney's tax returns, probably the same stuff that was in the past 2 years!  Since 2008, he has been a private citizen without a full time job.  His income is derived from speeches and investments.  Should he disclose every investment he's made in his lifetime?  Maybe or maybe not. 

He's been involved with a lot of businesses; and some of those takeovers have been controversial.  Liberals are just trying to grab onto anything controversial that would make Romney look bad based on his past investments, and business operations. 

He probably has paid less in Income tax because he hasn't had a full time job since 2002.  Most of his taxes are capital gains.  It might seem lower than the average middle class worker, but that is the nature of the industry he was working in.  Romney retired from full-time work in 2002, so why would he have to pay taxes if he had very limited income tax? 

If nothing is wrong with it, then why doesn't he just release them? It makes no sense if there's nothing controversial in his tax returns, but he refuses to release them even though all it does is raise questions and is a net negative. Btw, it isn't just Liberals. Hardcore conservative politicians have asked him to release them too.

[milhouse24]

He doesn't have to pay any income taxes because he has no steady income.  He retired in 2002. 

I think he might have a lot of controversial investments or offshore accounts.  He probably has complicated trusts and retirement accounts.  I'm sure there's some tricky tax avoidance techniques. 

He doesn't want to release them because they'll stir up more controversy.  If the government is so interested in his finances, Obama can just audit Romney.  There's nothing wrong or political with that. 

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

He doesn't have to pay any income taxes because he has no steady income.  He retired in 2002. 

I think he might have a lot of controversial investments or offshore accounts.  He probably has complicated trusts and retirement accounts.  I'm sure there's some tricky tax avoidance techniques. 

He doesn't want to release them because they'll stir up more controversy.  If the government is so interested in his finances, Obama can just audit Romney.  There's nothing wrong or political with that. 

There's no real comprehension of how much damage Romney has DONE TO HIMSELF.

He's done more damage by looking like he's done something tricky, than just being upfront from the get go and addressing it.

[stegosaurus]

To Romney's credit; In spite of all of his screw ups, he's handled this situation flawlessly. Stone-wall and let the Democrats look desperate. The polls reflect the weak sauce of the game Democratic politicians are playing.

Describe us your relation with reality.

RCP average is Obama +2 at the moment. If people were buying into what the Obama camp is accusing Romney of, the polls would reflect that.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It's not true, and there will be no way of verifying whether or not it is.

Then how do you know it's not true?

Because if 1) He paid literally "no" taxes, he would be in jail and 2) I have a hard time believing he found a way to reduce his tax burden to such a low amount, more or less zero, even with clever mastery of the tax code and all the intricacies within it.

Ergo, you don't know

Do you really want to apply that standard? The oldest line of defense for believing in a flat earth, denying the moon landings occured, or doubting evolution and OMG Climate Change. "If I didn't see it, then it didn't happen." Again, do you really want to use that standard?

[mondale84]

It's not true, and there will be no way of verifying whether or not it is.

Then how do you know it's not true?

Because if 1) He paid literally "no" taxes, he would be in jail and 2) I have a hard time believing he found a way to reduce his tax burden to such a low amount, more or less zero, even with clever mastery of the tax code and all the intricacies within it.

Ergo, you don't know

Do you really want to apply that standard? The oldest line of defense for believing in a flat earth, denying the moon landings occured, or doubting evolution and OMG Climate Change. "If I didn't see it, then it didn't happen." Again, do you really want to use that standard?

You and Hagrid are completely mischaracterizing what I said. I said you don't know whether he paid any taxes because he hasn't released his tax returns. That's a fact. Should I just trust that Romney paid taxes because he says so while he continues to hide his returns. He has something to hide, that much is certain. And don't give me the crap about it being impossible to not pay any taxes. This guys have secret overseas bank accounts for pete's sake!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It's not true, and there will be no way of verifying whether or not it is.

Then how do you know it's not true?

Because if 1) He paid literally "no" taxes, he would be in jail and 2) I have a hard time believing he found a way to reduce his tax burden to such a low amount, more or less zero, even with clever mastery of the tax code and all the intricacies within it.

Ergo, you don't know

Do you really want to apply that standard? The oldest line of defense for believing in a flat earth, denying the moon landings occured, or doubting evolution and OMG Climate Change. "If I didn't see it, then it didn't happen." Again, do you really want to use that standard?

You and Hagrid are completely mischaracterizing what I said. I said you don't know whether he paid any taxes because he hasn't released his tax returns. That's a fact. Should I just trust that Romney paid taxes because he says so while he continues to hide his returns. He has something to hide, that much is certain. And don't give me the crap about it being impossible to not pay any taxes. This guys have secret overseas bank accounts for pete's sake!

I have a far more reason to trust Romney then I do Harry Reid, a notorious machine hack who has enriched himself by clever utilization of his own position, who wouldn't even be anything but a hasbeen, had someone competent stepped forward to challenge him in 2010.

There is a logical political motivation for Romney not to release them and that is to keep the groper nasties of your guy's opposition research team, who will spin, twist, lie, and mischaracterize every financial move in order to "Kill Romney", away from them. And we know this for a fact based on what has happened with the returns he has already released.

There is no evidence of law breaking and beyond that it is a political question. One that is designed to cast doubt upon the candidate and put the burden of proof on him, true. But it also opens up Reid to criticism, and considering his disturbing record, his credibility is none existant at this point.

[Torie]

It's not true, and there will be no way of verifying whether or not it is.

Then how do you know it's not true?

Because if 1) He paid literally "no" taxes, he would be in jail and 2) I have a hard time believing he found a way to reduce his tax burden to such a low amount, more or less zero, even with clever mastery of the tax code and all the intricacies within it.

Ergo, you don't know

Do you really want to apply that standard? The oldest line of defense for believing in a flat earth, denying the moon landings occured, or doubting evolution and OMG Climate Change. "If I didn't see it, then it didn't happen." Again, do you really want to use that standard?

You and Hagrid are completely mischaracterizing what I said. I said you don't know whether he paid any taxes because he hasn't released his tax returns. That's a fact. Should I just trust that Romney paid taxes because he says so while he continues to hide his returns. He has something to hide, that much is certain. And don't give me the crap about it being impossible to not pay any taxes. This guys have secret overseas bank accounts for pete's sake!

If Romney has "secret" bank accounts, that would not appear on his tax return, and Mittens would be guilty of criminal tax evasion if the suggestion is that the income he earned was hidden by virtue of parking that income in a foreign bank account. And just what income would that be that he is hiding?  I mean his income was made from Bain deals, and the Bain fee charged to investors plus presumably some participation in after fee profits to the extent made. The investors paid the fee, and the profits earned and distributed.  Where did that money go?  I mean, if you are going to be a tax criminal, you don't want to leave little gaps like that. That makes you a dumb tax criminal, and dumb criminals of the white collar variety tend to be bagged and incarcerated.

[AmericanNation]

I heard Obama was the worst student in the history of Harvard Law.  He almost never went to class and his professors covered for him for an unknown reason.  This is undeniably true unless BO releases his transcripts and produces some authentic term papers.  He has done so much damage to himself by keeping everything about his past as secret as possible...     

[mondale84]

It's not true, and there will be no way of verifying whether or not it is.

Then how do you know it's not true?

Because if 1) He paid literally "no" taxes, he would be in jail and 2) I have a hard time believing he found a way to reduce his tax burden to such a low amount, more or less zero, even with clever mastery of the tax code and all the intricacies within it.

Ergo, you don't know

Do you really want to apply that standard? The oldest line of defense for believing in a flat earth, denying the moon landings occured, or doubting evolution and OMG Climate Change. "If I didn't see it, then it didn't happen." Again, do you really want to use that standard?

You and Hagrid are completely mischaracterizing what I said. I said you don't know whether he paid any taxes because he hasn't released his tax returns. That's a fact. Should I just trust that Romney paid taxes because he says so while he continues to hide his returns. He has something to hide, that much is certain. And don't give me the crap about it being impossible to not pay any taxes. This guys have secret overseas bank accounts for pete's sake!

If Romney has "secret" bank accounts, that would not appear on his tax return, and Mittens would be guilty of criminal tax evasion if the suggestion is that the income he earned was hidden by virtue of parking that income in a foreign bank account. And just what income would that be that he is hiding?  I mean his income was made from Bain deals, and the Bain fee charged to investors plus presumably some participation in after fee profits to the extent made. The investors paid the fee, and the profits earned and distributed.  Where did that money go?  I mean, if you are going to be a tax criminal, you don't want to leave little gaps like that. That makes you a dumb tax criminal, and dumb criminals of the white collar variety tend to be bagged and incarcerated.

These accounts may not have been "secret", but they were certainly secretive since he hid his money overseas. And I never said he did anything criminal, just something very, very damaging that might cost him the election.

This may also be the problem in the returns, but I guess we'll never know:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/opinion/the-mysteries-of-mitt-romneys-financial-records.html?_r=1

[mondale84]

I heard Obama was the worst student in the history of Harvard Law.  He almost never went to class and his professors covered for him for an unknown reason.  This is undeniably true unless BO releases his transcripts and produces some authentic term papers.  He has done so much damage to himself by keeping everything about his past as secret as possible...     

And that's why he became president of the law review...stop being an idiot, you useless troll

[Likely Voter]

whenever a poster starts with "I heard..." you know what comes next is the most ridiculous BS ever (on both sides).

Either link to credible sources or don't make $#!T up

[stegosaurus]

whenever a poster starts with "I heard..." you know what comes next is the most ridiculous BS ever (on both sides).

Either link to credible sources or don't make $#!T up

I'm thinking AmericanNation was making a snarky, comparative statement (correct me if I'm wrong). Why should we believe Reid's BS more than AmericanNation's when they are holding the same amount of evidence to substantiate their claims?

[Lief 🗽]

I heard Obama was the worst student in the history of Harvard Law.  He almost never went to class and his professors covered for him for an unknown reason.  This is undeniably true unless BO releases his transcripts and produces some authentic term papers.  He has done so much damage to himself by keeping everything about his past as secret as possible...      

I don't think you understand how the Harvard Law Review works.

[Likely Voter]

It is hard to tell the difference between wingnuttery and parody

[AmericanNation]

whenever a poster starts with "I heard..." you know what comes next is the most ridiculous BS ever (on both sides).

Either link to credible sources or don't make $#!T up

I'm thinking AmericanNation was making a snarky, comparative statement (correct me if I'm wrong). Why should we believe Reid's BS more than AmericanNation's when they are holding the same amount of evidence to substantiate their claims?

exactly.
Mondale doesn't understand how it is illogical to like Reid's crap and hate mine, when they are in fact the same thing.  Intellectual inconsistency has been successfully exposed!

I don't think you understand how the Harvard Law Review works.

And that's why he became president of the law review...stop being an idiot, you useless troll

Typical bad argument by a lefty:  "you're dumb, you're dumb, you're dumb; I'm smart, I can call you names, no I will not substantiate my statements with facts or a logical argument!!!, you're soooo dumb."

[Vote UKIP!]

It is this and other ploys used by the left that reminds me that me, as well as the American people, that they have nothing to run on but smears, lies, and personal attacks.

I'm feeling pretty good about our chances this November.

[ajb]

Romney has decided to make the conversation be about his taxes, and to keep the subject there as long as possible. I say, indulge him.

[Lief 🗽]

I don't know if you're a dumb, AmericanNation, but you're certainly an ignorant if you think someone can become the president of the Harvard Law Review while being "the worst student in the history of Harvard Law."

[AmericanNation]

I don't know if you're a dumb, AmericanNation, but you're certainly an ignorant if you think someone can become the president of the Harvard Law Review while being "the worst student in the history of Harvard Law."

I don't think that, I created a perfect parody of Harry Reid.  If you think my parody is ignorant, than you think Reid's statement is ignorant.  Simple logic. 

Romney has decided to make the conversation be about his taxes, and to keep the subject there as long as possible. I say, indulge him.

What ? 
"Mitt Romney presents one enormous problem for Barack Obama’s campaign: No divorce records. That’s why the BO and the media is so hot to get their hands on Romney’s tax records for the past 25 years. They need something to “pick through, distort and lie about” — as the Republican candidate says.
Obama’s usual campaign method, used in 100 percent of his races, has been to pry into the private records of his opponents.
Democrats aren’t going to find any personal dirt on the clean-cut Mormon, so they need complicated tax filings going back decades in order to create the illusion of scandal out of boring financial records.
Romney has already released his 2010 tax return and is about to release his 2011 return. After all the huffing and puffing by the media demanding those returns, the follow-up story vanished remarkably quickly when the only thing the return showed was that Romney pays millions of dollars in taxes and gives a lot of money to charity." -AC
...boy, that is perfectly said. 

[ajb]

I don't know if you're a dumb, AmericanNation, but you're certainly an ignorant if you think someone can become the president of the Harvard Law Review while being "the worst student in the history of Harvard Law."

I don't think that, I created a perfect parody of Harry Reid.  If you think my parody is ignorant, than you think Reid's statement is ignorant.  Simple logic. 

Romney has decided to make the conversation be about his taxes, and to keep the subject there as long as possible. I say, indulge him.

What ? 
"Mitt Romney presents one enormous problem for Barack Obama’s campaign: No divorce records. That’s why the BO and the media is so hot to get their hands on Romney’s tax records for the past 25 years. They need something to “pick through, distort and lie about” — as the Republican candidate says.
Obama’s usual campaign method, used in 100 percent of his races, has been to pry into the private records of his opponents.
Democrats aren’t going to find any personal dirt on the clean-cut Mormon, so they need complicated tax filings going back decades in order to create the illusion of scandal out of boring financial records.
Romney has already released his 2010 tax return and is about to release his 2011 return. After all the huffing and puffing by the media demanding those returns, the follow-up story vanished remarkably quickly when the only thing the return showed was that Romney pays millions of dollars in taxes and gives a lot of money to charity." -AC
...boy, that is perfectly said. 

I  assume Romney is smart enough to figure all this out on his own. And yet, rather than end all this rumor-mongering by releasing his earlier returns, he prolongs the discussion by stonewalling. Since I think Romney is a smart guy, I assume this is his intention, and that he thinks it's in his interests to keep this conversation going as long as possible.

[Smid]

I now consider Reid to be no better than the morons who clamour for Obama's birth certificate. It's exactly the same argument of "here's a ridiculous statement, now prove it to be untrue." If anything, Reid is worse, since he holds a public position of authority.

[Landslide Lyndon]

If anything, Reid is worse, since he holds a public position of authority.

So do dozens of Republican governors, senators and congressmen who asked for Obama'sd birth certificate.