Reid: Bain Investor Told Me That Mitt Romney 'Didn't Pay Any Taxes For 10 Years'

[stegosaurus]

This is the same reason why there would have never been a Steve Jobs or Welch Presidency. There is simply no way a successfully business man can withstand the dogs of ignorant populism released by desperate insider politicians.

Isn't that just another way of saying that the American public would never approve of large corporations if they knew how they actually worked?

Perhaps at first, but when confronted with the alternative of higher prices and less access to consumer goods the public would quiet. This is largely why "free trade" is still a popular position.

[Sbane]

Romney isn't deceiving anyone in this. He is trying to prevent further deception by the Obama opposition research team, by not providing them with the instrument for such.

So why are his taxes so complicated? Of course this is a great argument for tax simplification as well but Romney should have been paying way more in taxes than he did. That's the problem here, not deception by anyone.

[Oakvale]

I don't understand the Republican argument here. Why the hell shouldn't Romney do with every major Presidential candidate since, um, his father, has done and release a few more years of tax returns?

Look, we all know his pathetic and bumbling response to this is revealing - there's clearly something bad - maybe very bad - in those tax returns, otherwise why on earth isn't he releasing them right now and making the Democrats look incredibly silly?

The argument against this doesn't make sense - Mitt Romney's so special that he shouldn't be subject to the same kind of vetting - no matter how intrusive you may think it is - that every Presidential candidate in the last forty years has? Please.

Look, it's possible Romney is playing some kind of grand political chess game and I'll end up looking stupid when he triumphantly releases his boring, clean tax returns. I think we can deduce that's not going to happen.

This isn't like people are asking for his dental records - this is a normal, routine part of running for President, and the fact Romney is frantically attempting to escape it is very, very suspicious - and you're all operating under a massive collective delusion if you think it's not going to hurt him politically.

[stegosaurus]

I don't understand the Republican argument here. Why the hell shouldn't Romney do with every major Presidential candidate since, um, his father, has done and release a few more years of tax returns?

Look, we all know his pathetic and bumbling response to this is revealing - there's clearly something bad - maybe very bad - in those tax returns, otherwise why on earth isn't he releasing them right now and making the Democrats look incredibly silly?

The argument against this doesn't make sense - Mitt Romney's so special that he shouldn't be subject to the same kind of vetting - no matter how intrusive you may think it is - that every Presidential candidate in the last forty years has? Please.

Look, it's possible Romney is playing some kind of grand political chess game and I'll end up looking stupid when he triumphantly releases his boring, clean tax returns. I think we can deduce that's not going to happen.

This isn't like people are asking for his dental records - this is a normal, routine part of running for President, and the fact Romney is frantically attempting to escape it is very, very suspicious - and you're all operating under a massive collective delusion if you think it's not going to hurt him politically.

People asked the same questions regarding Obama's birth certificate. "Why not just release it and prove us wrong?". It's because political battles aren't won by giving due diligence to every ridiculous allegation thrown at you, which is exactly why Team Romney is telling the Democrats to shove it. These tax allegations against Romney are every bit as ludacris and politically motivated as the birther nonsense.

[Oakvale]

I don't understand the Republican argument here. Why the hell shouldn't Romney do with every major Presidential candidate since, um, his father, has done and release a few more years of tax returns?

Look, we all know his pathetic and bumbling response to this is revealing - there's clearly something bad - maybe very bad - in those tax returns, otherwise why on earth isn't he releasing them right now and making the Democrats look incredibly silly?

The argument against this doesn't make sense - Mitt Romney's so special that he shouldn't be subject to the same kind of vetting - no matter how intrusive you may think it is - that every Presidential candidate in the last forty years has? Please.

Look, it's possible Romney is playing some kind of grand political chess game and I'll end up looking stupid when he triumphantly releases his boring, clean tax returns. I think we can deduce that's not going to happen.

This isn't like people are asking for his dental records - this is a normal, routine part of running for President, and the fact Romney is frantically attempting to escape it is very, very suspicious - and you're all operating under a massive collective delusion if you think it's not going to hurt him politically.

People asked the same questions regarding Obama's birth certificate. "Why not just release it and prove us wrong?". It's because political battles aren't won by giving due diligence to every ridiculous allegation thrown at you, which is exactly why Team Romney is telling the Democrats to shove it. These tax allegations against Romney are every bit as ludacris and politically motivated as the birther nonsense.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but I wasn't aware that it was common practice for Presidential candidates to release their birth certificates.

[Torie]

Romney isn't deceiving anyone in this. He is trying to prevent further deception by the Obama opposition research team, by not providing them with the instrument for such.

So why are his taxes so complicated? Of course this is a great argument for tax simplification as well but Romney should have been paying way more in taxes than he did. That's the problem here, not deception by anyone.

My tax return runs about 50 pages. It takes me about a week to prepare.

[Brittain33]

Torie, I think it's certainly possible he didn't say "income" on purpose. I don't believe Reid's story but I think it's possible he avoided taxes altogether at least once.

This distinction between paying taxes and paying income taxes is always on my mind because of the common claim by some partisans that the poor don't pay taxes in order to justify income tax cuts.

[pbrower2a]

Liberals are just grasping at any issue that takes voters minds off the economy; and make Romney seem like an evil wall street capitalist shark. 

I'll tell you what is in Romney's tax returns, probably the same stuff that was in the past 2 years!  Since 2008, he has been a private citizen without a full time job.  His income is derived from speeches and investments.  Should he disclose every investment he's made in his lifetime?  Maybe or maybe not. 

He's been involved with a lot of businesses; and some of those takeovers have been controversial.  Liberals are just trying to grab onto anything controversial that would make Romney look bad based on his past investments, and business operations. 

He probably has paid less in Income tax because he hasn't had a full time job since 2002.  Most of his taxes are capital gains.  It might seem lower than the average middle class worker, but that is the nature of the industry he was working in.  Romney retired from full-time work in 2002, so why would he have to pay taxes if he had very limited income tax? 

If his business ethics leave something to be desired, then he does not deserve to be President. Such is even more important than taxes.

[mondale84]

Harry Reid is the world's biggest freedom fighter:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79365.html?hp=f2

[Lief 🗽]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

What a badass. So glad he survived in 2010.

[Torie]

Torie, I think it's certainly possible he didn't say "income" on purpose. I don't believe Reid's story but I think it's possible he avoided taxes altogether at least once.

This distinction between paying taxes and paying income taxes is always on my mind because of the common claim by some partisans that the poor don't pay taxes in order to justify income tax cuts.

I agree with your second paragraph completely brittain33, which is why the average tax rate looking at all taxes is lower for those earning 100K to 200K than those earning less than 100K. However, bear in mind that this regressive part of the tax structure is substantially mitigated by the earned income tax credit, food stamps,  etc. Which raises its own problems, because the implicit marginal tax rate when your income bumps up from 20K to say 40K, and you lose the transfer payments, becomes uncomfortably high from a public policy standpoint. It just doesn't "pay" that much to try to move on up, and out of the transfer payment zone. However, to mitigate that, means more transfer payments for those earning more, to slow down the phase out. It is a tough nut to crack.

[Lincoln Republican]

I don't know how many times the Romney haters in this thread have said the exact same thing over and over and over again.  Eight pages of the exact same argument.  Come on, please, somebody, get more original.   

Only voters who have a reasoning level below that of a 12 year old would actually fall for this UNSUBSTANTIATED story from an ANONYMOUS source who doesn't have the GUTS to say it in public.

What this cowardly, low life, excuse for a Senator, Reid, has done, is to emphasize that the Democrats and Obama have absolutely no ability and absolutely no clue, whatsoever, in how to deal with the disastrous state of the American economy, and so, in desperation, they trot out "I could care less" Reid to throw out another smoke screen with an UNSUBSTANTIATED story from an ANONYMOUS source who doesn't have the GUTS to say it in public.   

[Landslide Lyndon]

[Likely Voter]

when the all caps and bold get pulled out, you know a line of attack is working

[Lincoln Republican]

when the all caps and bold get pulled out, you know a line of attack is working

No, you know how amateurish and desperate the line of attack really is.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Liberals are just grasping at any issue that takes voters minds off the economy; and make Romney seem like an evil wall street capitalist shark. 

I'll tell you what is in Romney's tax returns, probably the same stuff that was in the past 2 years!  Since 2008, he has been a private citizen without a full time job.  His income is derived from speeches and investments.  Should he disclose every investment he's made in his lifetime?  Maybe or maybe not. 

He's been involved with a lot of businesses; and some of those takeovers have been controversial.  Liberals are just trying to grab onto anything controversial that would make Romney look bad based on his past investments, and business operations. 

He probably has paid less in Income tax because he hasn't had a full time job since 2002.  Most of his taxes are capital gains.  It might seem lower than the average middle class worker, but that is the nature of the industry he was working in.  Romney retired from full-time work in 2002, so why would he have to pay taxes if he had very limited income tax? 

If his business ethics leave something to be desired, then he does not deserve to be President. Such is even more important than taxes.

Oh, we're talking about politicians deserving to be president, are we?

What a fun activity. If Obama deserves to be re-elected, deciding on the criteria must be like playing a game of Mad Libs.

[stegosaurus]

I don't understand the Republican argument here. Why the hell shouldn't Romney do with every major Presidential candidate since, um, his father, has done and release a few more years of tax returns?

Look, we all know his pathetic and bumbling response to this is revealing - there's clearly something bad - maybe very bad - in those tax returns, otherwise why on earth isn't he releasing them right now and making the Democrats look incredibly silly?

The argument against this doesn't make sense - Mitt Romney's so special that he shouldn't be subject to the same kind of vetting - no matter how intrusive you may think it is - that every Presidential candidate in the last forty years has? Please.

Look, it's possible Romney is playing some kind of grand political chess game and I'll end up looking stupid when he triumphantly releases his boring, clean tax returns. I think we can deduce that's not going to happen.

This isn't like people are asking for his dental records - this is a normal, routine part of running for President, and the fact Romney is frantically attempting to escape it is very, very suspicious - and you're all operating under a massive collective delusion if you think it's not going to hurt him politically.

People asked the same questions regarding Obama's birth certificate. "Why not just release it and prove us wrong?". It's because political battles aren't won by giving due diligence to every ridiculous allegation thrown at you, which is exactly why Team Romney is telling the Democrats to shove it. These tax allegations against Romney are every bit as ludacris and politically motivated as the birther nonsense.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but I wasn't aware that it was common practice for Presidential candidates to release their birth certificates.

It isn't. Nor is it common practice for an incumbent's re-election campaign to accuse their opponent of financial malpractice and possible felonies without any credible evidence. The burden of proof is on the accuser.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I don't understand the Republican argument here. Why the hell shouldn't Romney do with every major Presidential candidate since, um, his father, has done and release a few more years of tax returns?

Look, we all know his pathetic and bumbling response to this is revealing - there's clearly something bad - maybe very bad - in those tax returns, otherwise why on earth isn't he releasing them right now and making the Democrats look incredibly silly?

The argument against this doesn't make sense - Mitt Romney's so special that he shouldn't be subject to the same kind of vetting - no matter how intrusive you may think it is - that every Presidential candidate in the last forty years has? Please.

Look, it's possible Romney is playing some kind of grand political chess game and I'll end up looking stupid when he triumphantly releases his boring, clean tax returns. I think we can deduce that's not going to happen.

This isn't like people are asking for his dental records - this is a normal, routine part of running for President, and the fact Romney is frantically attempting to escape it is very, very suspicious - and you're all operating under a massive collective delusion if you think it's not going to hurt him politically.

People asked the same questions regarding Obama's birth certificate. "Why not just release it and prove us wrong?". It's because political battles aren't won by giving due diligence to every ridiculous allegation thrown at you, which is exactly why Team Romney is telling the Democrats to shove it. These tax allegations against Romney are every bit as ludacris and politically motivated as the birther nonsense.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but I wasn't aware that it was common practice for Presidential candidates to release their birth certificates.

It isn't. Nor is it common practice for an incumbent's re-election campaign to accuse their opponent of financial malpractice and possible felonies without any credible evidence. The burden of proof is on the accuser.

Indeed. It's much more common for an incumbent to accuse his opponent of being anti-American and soft on terrorism.

[stegosaurus]

I don't understand the Republican argument here. Why the hell shouldn't Romney do with every major Presidential candidate since, um, his father, has done and release a few more years of tax returns?

Look, we all know his pathetic and bumbling response to this is revealing - there's clearly something bad - maybe very bad - in those tax returns, otherwise why on earth isn't he releasing them right now and making the Democrats look incredibly silly?

The argument against this doesn't make sense - Mitt Romney's so special that he shouldn't be subject to the same kind of vetting - no matter how intrusive you may think it is - that every Presidential candidate in the last forty years has? Please.

Look, it's possible Romney is playing some kind of grand political chess game and I'll end up looking stupid when he triumphantly releases his boring, clean tax returns. I think we can deduce that's not going to happen.

This isn't like people are asking for his dental records - this is a normal, routine part of running for President, and the fact Romney is frantically attempting to escape it is very, very suspicious - and you're all operating under a massive collective delusion if you think it's not going to hurt him politically.

People asked the same questions regarding Obama's birth certificate. "Why not just release it and prove us wrong?". It's because political battles aren't won by giving due diligence to every ridiculous allegation thrown at you, which is exactly why Team Romney is telling the Democrats to shove it. These tax allegations against Romney are every bit as ludacris and politically motivated as the birther nonsense.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but I wasn't aware that it was common practice for Presidential candidates to release their birth certificates.

It isn't. Nor is it common practice for an incumbent's re-election campaign to accuse their opponent of financial malpractice and possible felonies without any credible evidence. The burden of proof is on the accuser.

Indeed. It's much more common for an incumbent to accuse his opponent of being anti-American and soft on terrorism.

That's a strawman argument, I never suggested that I approved Bush's campaign tactic.

[Brittain33]

What does it matter if people approve? Bush did it, and it worked. Dems could wring our hands but it won't change. I'm glad Reid is playing this game even though I don't believe him. Republicans may not have "supported" the swift boating or Gore bashing but you still voted for your guy and he won. So it goes.

[Lincoln Republican]

OK Mr. Trash Talk Majority Leader..........

You made the allegations.

So you and your anonymous, "credible" source, if he or she even exists, who doesn't have the guts to make the allegations in public, provide proof of your trash talk.

Reid made the allegations, it is up to Reid to prove them.

[Lief 🗽]

Once Romney releases his tax returns, Reid will gladly prove these allegations.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Maddow (she's the only talking head I can stand) had a great little piece on Romney's intransigence here. He used the same exact tactics when he was running to be Governor of Massachusetts in 2002 and Democrats wanted to disqualify him because he did release his taxes which they felt would reveal that he wasn't even an official resident of MA. He talked tough, told the press to trust him and then at the latest possible date, after incurring a lot of damage, he released his returns: he had to retroactively pay his taxes in MA. He wasn't a resident until he was running for higher office in MA and realized it would be a liability.

If his tax returns were clean, he'd release them as soon as possible.

[Likely Voter]

Romney's whole rationale shows that there is something bad in there. For the one year he has already released he has been hit for swiss bank accounts, tax shelters, a strangely ginormous IRA and most specificlaly his low rate of 13.9%

So if the previous years are more of the same then there is no reason not to release them. Therefore I take Romney at his word, there is something worse in the other years, and it is probably the rate he paid.

If he paid a higher rate, why wouldn't he release them to show that 2010 was just an aberration and that he ususally paid a higher rate. I doubt his rate was ever 0%, but I wouldnt be surprised if his accountants had figured a way to get it under 10% for some years. Hell this is the guy who wrote off his wife's horse as a business deduction.

[Politico]

It is hard to trust Reid once one sees the depiction of him in Scorsese's Casino.

Romney released over twenty years of tax returns to the McCain campaign in 2008. There is nothing to hide or he would not have agreed to such vetting with the McCain campaign. Furthermore, if Romney paid no taxes for ten years then the IRS would be all over him much like the Feds were all over John Edwards. Of course, Romney paid every dime he owed and not a penny more. Romney is a law-abiding citizen who paid more in taxes last year than most people on this board will pay in their entire lifetime (hell, he probably paid more in taxes than most liberals on this board will earn in their entire lifetime).

With that said, if I were in charge of Romney's campaign I would release the returns right now during the middle of the Olympics, before Joe Voter starts paying serious attention to the campaigns. The day after the Colorado Movie Massacre would have been ideal timing. The ball was dropped, so to speak.