Reid: Bain Investor Told Me That Mitt Romney 'Didn't Pay Any Taxes For 10 Years'

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Doesn't Reid have some financial issues himself involving how he made his money?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It's not true, and there will be no way of verifying whether or not it is.

Then how do you know it's not true?

Because if 1) He paid literally "no" taxes, he would be in jail and 2) I have a hard time beleiving he found a way to reduce his tax burden to such a low amount, more or less zero, even with clever mastery of the tax code and all the intricacies within it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It's not true, and there will be no way of verifying whether or not it is.

Then how do you know it's not true?

Because if 1) He paid literally "no" taxes, he would be in jail and 2) I have a hard time believing he found a way to reduce his tax burden to such a low amount, more or less zero, even with clever mastery of the tax code and all the intricacies within it.

Ergo, you don't know

Do you really want to apply that standard? The oldest line of defense for believing in a flat earth, denying the moon landings occured, or doubting evolution and OMG Climate Change. "If I didn't see it, then it didn't happen." Again, do you really want to use that standard?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It's not true, and there will be no way of verifying whether or not it is.

Then how do you know it's not true?

Because if 1) He paid literally "no" taxes, he would be in jail and 2) I have a hard time believing he found a way to reduce his tax burden to such a low amount, more or less zero, even with clever mastery of the tax code and all the intricacies within it.

Ergo, you don't know

Do you really want to apply that standard? The oldest line of defense for believing in a flat earth, denying the moon landings occured, or doubting evolution and OMG Climate Change. "If I didn't see it, then it didn't happen." Again, do you really want to use that standard?

You and Hagrid are completely mischaracterizing what I said. I said you don't know whether he paid any taxes because he hasn't released his tax returns. That's a fact. Should I just trust that Romney paid taxes because he says so while he continues to hide his returns. He has something to hide, that much is certain. And don't give me the crap about it being impossible to not pay any taxes. This guys have secret overseas bank accounts for pete's sake!

I have a far more reason to trust Romney then I do Harry Reid, a notorious machine hack who has enriched himself by clever utilization of his own position, who wouldn't even be anything but a hasbeen, had someone competent stepped forward to challenge him in 2010.

There is a logical political motivation for Romney not to release them and that is to keep the groper nasties of your guy's opposition research team, who will spin, twist, lie, and mischaracterize every financial move in order to "Kill Romney", away from them. And we know this for a fact based on what has happened with the returns he has already released.

There is no evidence of law breaking and beyond that it is a political question. One that is designed to cast doubt upon the candidate and put the burden of proof on him, true. But it also opens up Reid to criticism, and considering his disturbing record, his credibility is none existant at this point.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I now consider Reid to be no better than the morons who clamour for Obama's birth certificate. It's exactly the same argument of "here's a ridiculous statement, now prove it to be untrue." If anything, Reid is worse, since he holds a public position of authority.

And even worse then that because he is a complete hypocrit on the issue of financial disclosure. Damn I wish we had bagged this SOB in 2010.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It's not true, and there will be no way of verifying whether or not it is.

Then how do you know it's not true?

Because if 1) He paid literally "no" taxes, he would be in jail and 2) I have a hard time believing he found a way to reduce his tax burden to such a low amount, more or less zero, even with clever mastery of the tax code and all the intricacies within it.

Ergo, you don't know

Do you really want to apply that standard? The oldest line of defense for believing in a flat earth, denying the moon landings occured, or doubting evolution and OMG Climate Change. "If I didn't see it, then it didn't happen." Again, do you really want to use that standard?

You and Hagrid are completely mischaracterizing what I said. I said you don't know whether he paid any taxes because he hasn't released his tax returns. That's a fact. Should I just trust that Romney paid taxes because he says so while he continues to hide his returns. He has something to hide, that much is certain. And don't give me the crap about it being impossible to not pay any taxes. This guys have secret overseas bank accounts for pete's sake!

If Romney has "secret" bank accounts, that would not appear on his tax return, and Mittens would be guilty of criminal tax evasion if the suggestion is that the income he earned was hidden by virtue of parking that income in a foreign bank account. And just what income would that be that he is hiding?  I mean his income was made from Bain deals, and the Bain fee charged to investors plus presumably some participation in after fee profits to the extent made. The investors paid the fee, and the profits earned and distributed.  Where did that money go?  I mean, if you are going to be a tax criminal, you don't want to leave little gaps like that. That makes you a dumb tax criminal, and dumb criminals of the white collar variety tend to be bagged and incarcerated.

These accounts may not have been "secret", but they were certainly secretive since he hid his money overseas. And I never said he did anything criminal, just something very, very damaging that might cost him the election.

This may also be the problem in the returns, but I guess we'll never know:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/opinion/the-mysteries-of-mitt-romneys-financial-records.html?_r=1

The use of the terms "secretive"  and "hid" imply criminal behavior in this context, unless you qualify them as not so at the time.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I now consider Reid to be no better than the morons who clamour for Obama's birth certificate. It's exactly the same argument of "here's a ridiculous statement, now prove it to be untrue." If anything, Reid is worse, since he holds a public position of authority.

And even worse then that because he is a complete hypocrit on the issue of financial disclosure. Damn I wish we had bagged this SOB in 2010.

GOP primary voters loved freedom and the Constitution too much to nominate an impure candidate.

If the primary voters had a chance to get to know Angle, they wouldn't have nominated her. She now polls around 10% in primary polls for races she considered entering. The leading candidate collapsed, Tarkanian never got going really and Angle was there on the seen to reap the benefits with her excentricities being unknown to much of the primary electorate.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

A rube goldberg machine of unnamed sources. lol

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This is the same reason why there would have never been a Steve Jobs or Welch Presidency. There is simply no way a successfully business man can withstand the dogs of ignorant populism released by desperate insider politicians.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Harding's problem had to do with his own personal failings and his unfortunate luck of dying in office before he could do anything to rectify the situation, not his business record. Lincoln was a successfull attorney who represented corporations like the railroads, akin to representing big oil today, and made a good amount doing it. He would probably be ripped apart for that, today.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Romney isn't deceiving anyone in this. He is trying to prevent further deception by the Obama opposition research team, by not providing them with the instrument for such.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This is the worst thread on the forum.

One thing this board has in common with Michael Phelps, it constantly breaks its one records.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Reid knows how to play the game.

It's practically political suicide for him to demand Romney completely open his books. Already, Reid has refused to release his tax returns. Second, everyone knows how fundamentally unfair it is to make anonymous charges based allegedly on anonymous sources. He is being reduced to a laughingstock as other folks are making anonymous accusations against him based on "unnamed sources."

Reid has been committing political suicide since 2006. He has been a laughing stock ever since he thought he had Rush by the balls in 2007, when he should have been focused on more important issues then policing a controversial entertainer. Republicans dropped the ball in 2010 and let him get away with it for another six years.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Some are treating this thing like it is a court of law talking about proof and meeting legal requirements. But this is the court of public opinion, and as I noted before, any day the Romney team have to defend the limited release of tax returns for the richest candidate in recent memory is a day they are losing.

I can remember during the primaries that many Republicans pointed out that nominating a financier in the first election following a recession that was triggered by Wall Street was not a smart idea. Remember how the party lurched from one flavor of the month to another, all in a desparate hope to find someone who wasn't Mitt Romney. One just has to look at Romney's current ratings vs past nominees by the summer to see he has a huge likabillity gap. That is what this debate is all about.

Meeting the minimum requirement and arguing with Harry Reed over whether or not he paid taxes is not making people like Mitt Romney any more.

Romney needs to get the subject back onto the economy and on his own agenda, which he also hasn't articulated well yet, just like his own personal image. This needs to occur by the convention and preferably before that. His campaign has been horrible at doing any of the big things needed to repair or deal with problems that dog Romney, from Bain, to taxes, to the auto companies. Therefore, it isn't promising that they would be able to change the narrative substantially as a result of anything coming out of Boston.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

How much did Romney pay in taxes in 2010 (as shown in the 2011 release)?

They said close to $3 million on one of the Sunday shows (can't remember which one). If he made $20 Million and paid an effective rate of 14% then that seems about right. In that case he paid more in income taxes in one year then most people make over the course of their entire working careers. 

The other thing is most people don't pay the statutory tax rate at any level of income. I highly doubt Romney even has a lower effective rate then the vast majority of Americans. From experience, I can say that for poor folk it isn't even a positive number, no where close in fact. What is the effective tax rate for the middle class?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

They are not demanding he release the returns to satisfy some standard. They are recommending he do so as a means to get this behind him. The problem is that they also don't know what is in them and thus don't know calculus behind Romney's decision not to do so.