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| | |-+  Québec: Preferred Premier/Prime Minister
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Poll
Question: Or whichever way you want to translate it
Jean Charest (Parti Libéral du Québec)   -4 (14.3%)
Pauline Marois (Parti Québécois)   -7 (25%)
François Legault (Coalition Avenir Québec)   -4 (14.3%)
Amir Khadir (Québec Solidaire)   -13 (46.4%)
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Total Voters: 28

Author Topic: Québec: Preferred Premier/Prime Minister  (Read 1123 times)
RogueBeaver
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« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2012, 05:47:04 pm »
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Speaking as an Anglo myself, Marokai's right. A lot of this is internal pressure- and considering that she barely survived a caucus revolt in a party which has overthrown or pressured out 5 of her 6 (except Parizeau) predecessors, internal pressure'has to be taken seriously by any PQ leader who wants to stick around.

Her record in office is that of a technocratic social democrat. In a recent magazine profile she  named her two biggest political accomplishments: educational reform and creation of our public daycare system when she ran those ministries in the last PQ government. Culture was never mentioned except in passing. I'm certain she will pass the language legislation with a majority, less sure about the cultural stuff. To use a Tom Friedman analogy, the Liberals mouth the words while the PQ belts them out. But all 3 parties use the same cultural hymn book in practice, though the Liberals sometimes diverge in theory when in the mood.


On the OP: None of the above. CAQ is too amateurish, Liberals way too corrupt. Charest if forced to choose. Maybe Harvey if I wanted to waste my vote (which is wasted because my riding is overwhelmingly PLQ)
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2012, 05:53:39 pm »
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I hope the PQ wins, if only to bolster future support for the Bloc and displace a bit of the Orange Crush in 2015.
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Vosem
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« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2012, 05:57:50 pm »
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Khadir is still awful (and, Holmes, he's also a separatist on top of that), Marois isn't an option, but having learned more about this election, I'm increasingly rooting for Legault as Premier over Charest. Luc Harvey (CPQ, a minor party), like RB said, would be nice; a more explicitly federalist version of the CAQ which approves of Harper? Sign me up! But, ultimately, it would very much come down to where in Quebec I am; in preferred order of parties that have a chance in at least one seat, CAQ, PLQ, PQ, ON, QS. So I would determine who the favorite(s) are and then vote for whoever on that list has the highest chance of victory. With some exceptions (I'd probably vote for Lawrence Bergman over a CAQ candidate, for instance).

I hope the PQ wins, if only to bolster future support for the Bloc and displace a bit of the Orange Crush in 2015.

That's shallow; provincial government in Canada is (as I understand it) more powerful than US state government, and to me the idea of voting for a candidate, hoping they fail, to try to bring down a different candidate by guilt by association is just not appealing whatsoever. Vote for who you hope wins; in very multi-party Quebec, it should be underlined that you vote for the candidate, not the party; that you vote for a local representative, not a Premier; and that you should take into account who has a chance and who doesn't.
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koenkai
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« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2012, 05:59:18 pm »
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Yawn. Calling it racist is Not Getting It.

And this is exactly why Quebec isn't going to be anything but a bastion of Pure Laine racism. At least until it sheds the immature political culture that simultaneously relishes playing the persecution card and entrenching white privilege.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2012, 06:18:53 pm »
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I hope the PQ wins, if only to bolster future support for the Bloc and displace a bit of the Orange Crush in 2015.

That's shallow; provincial government in Canada is (as I understand it) more powerful than US state government, and to me the idea of voting for a candidate, hoping they fail, to try to bring down a different candidate by guilt by association is just not appealing whatsoever. Vote for who you hope wins; in very multi-party Quebec, it should be underlined that you vote for the candidate, not the party; that you vote for a local representative, not a Premier; and that you should take into account who has a chance and who doesn't.

Unfortunately, party discipline is so strict in our provinces these days that you really are not voting for an individual representative anymore: That representative will simply be a number for his leader to count on. I don't like it, but that's now the political reality.

Having no vested interest in the Quebec election aside from its national effects, I am not ashamed to say that I hope the PQ wins. My political ideology is not reflected in Charest's Liberals or the PQ, and, unfortunately, those are the only two parties that have a shot at winning. The fact that we're talking about "outrageous tuition hikes" in Quebec pretty much cements my disconnect from these parties (tuition in Quebec is a pittance compared to tuition in Ontario, even after McGunity's 30% grant). With these reasons in mind, I am, indeed, inclined to hope for a victory for the separatists. The Clarity Act (Mr. Dion was at least good for something) will prevent Quebec sovereignty anyway, so I have no qualms supporting the PQ if it will quell federal NDP support in the region.
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« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2012, 09:06:02 pm »
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The language laws are supported by all major parties in Quebec.

This cannot be stressed enough. I understand, us being mostly anglophone around these parts, but the reason these laws exist have their history and their purpose, and making the decision, even as an outsider, to vote for someone or not in this poll based solely on "anglophone bigotry" is shallower than shallow.

See the thing is though PQ wants to expand them and basically outlaw all Anglophone colleges. And what would you say if somewhere like Arizona started putting in anti-Spanish laws. That would certainly be racist. I support complete annihilation of the Quebec nationalist parties, like what the Bloc almost got. A shame the PQ didn't follow in the Bloc's footsteps.
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koenkai
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« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2012, 10:02:30 pm »
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See the thing is though PQ wants to expand them and basically outlaw all Anglophone colleges. And what would you say if somewhere like Arizona started putting in anti-Spanish laws. That would certainly be racist. I support complete annihilation of the Quebec nationalist parties, like what the Bloc almost got. A shame the PQ didn't follow in the Bloc's footsteps.

And let's be quite frank on who the PQ is really targeting with their French-only drive. The vast majority of immigrants to Canada are anglophone to some extent. Largely because English is essentially the international language and from China to India to the Philippines to West Africa, the foreign language of choice is usually English. And even if they're not, learning one foreign language is often such a struggle, that most simply learn English.  It's just a continuation of the typical Quebecoise Pure Laine repudiation of immigration, at least those involving people who look different from them, a policy and social mindset that puts them way out of line with the rest of tolerant, multicultural Canada. It's why the vast majority of immigrants who have the misfortune of blundering into Quebec but have the fortune of being economically capable of moving, quickly leave for greener pastures.
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« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2012, 10:22:57 pm »
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Yeah the only places I can see it being desirable to migrate to Quebec from are Francophone Africa and Haiti.
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change08
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« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2012, 05:15:43 pm »
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See the thing is though PQ wants to expand them and basically outlaw all Anglophone colleges. And what would you say if somewhere like Arizona started putting in anti-Spanish laws. That would certainly be racist. I support complete annihilation of the Quebec nationalist parties, like what the Bloc almost got. A shame the PQ didn't follow in the Bloc's footsteps.

And let's be quite frank on who the PQ is really targeting with their French-only drive. The vast majority of immigrants to Canada are anglophone to some extent. Largely because English is essentially the international language and from China to India to the Philippines to West Africa, the foreign language of choice is usually English. And even if they're not, learning one foreign language is often such a struggle, that most simply learn English.  It's just a continuation of the typical Quebecoise Pure Laine repudiation of immigration, at least those involving people who look different from them, a policy and social mindset that puts them way out of line with the rest of tolerant, multicultural Canada. It's why the vast majority of immigrants who have the misfortune of blundering into Quebec but have the fortune of being economically capable of moving, quickly leave for greener pastures.

Yes, this exactly!

The Parti Quebecois are exactly the type of fiscal/populist-left that I shudder at. They just shamelessly barrel scrape and appeal to the worst instincts, fears and bigotries of many of the people that they say they represent.

Up in Scotland, Alex Salmond's always doing it and it's just disgusting. "The Left", to me, shouldn't be about divide and rule and judging by Pauline Marois' rhetoric, she thrives on it.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2012, 06:01:17 pm »
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Haha, no, not at all. It's more that she has to use that kind of language to keep the nuttier sections of the PQ membership from heading into open revolt.
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« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2012, 06:05:26 pm »
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Haha, no, not at all. It's more that she has to use that kind of language to keep the nuttier sections of the PQ membership from heading into open revolt.

Yes, but it's still sad that the only competitive left-wing party in Québec has so many nutjobs in it.
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« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2012, 07:03:39 pm »
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This thread is quite terrible, but whatever.

My answer is the same as before, I wouldn't trust any of the leaders (except perhaps David, but while she's great, she has no political experience and a QS government, which will never happen but whatevsky, would be quite a trainwreck) with student government, much less the province of Quebec.

I stand ready to be convinced that Marois' mindless populism and ethno-nationalism was all for show and that she'll govern as a moderately competent and fairly non-corrupt boring technocrat. It's still a very good thing that Quebec is rid of Jean Charest, who besides being totally incompetent and having accomplished nothing good in 9 years, was the most corrupt Premier since Duplessis. Still slightly discouraging for humanity that he *almost* won reelection. As for Legault, it's really easy to fall into his lies and populism, but even besides the fact that his team had like zero talent (a morbidly obese fraud doctor and some slightly shady Mr. law n' order don't count), his platform was retarded and if he had been elected it would have been a disaster for Quebec.

Khadir/David are intelligent and fairly reasonable (afaik) politicians, but they're only really cute for protest/hip purposes. It's great that both are in the Assembly as they will give a voice to many issues and problems which are ignored, but I certainly don't think any of them would actually be good PMs.
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17:40   oakvale   the people are bad and shouldn't be allowed vote whenever possible
17:40   oakvale   The average voter wants to end austerity, bring back hanging and put all immigrants in death
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