Are the VRA districts the modern version of "seperate but equal"?

[muon2]

Well, Louisiana is 32% Black; 2 VRA seats could be drawn giving Blacks 33% of the delegation. Pretty ideal as far as proportionality goes.

But the issue is, we are looking at it wrong. Democrats of all people especially shouldn't be looking at communities as _% white, _%black etc, it should just be that there are people, and the race shouldn't matter.

Theoretically that should be true. However, the 15th Amendment says otherwise.

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The right to vote includes the ability to participate in all parts of the electoral process. Since effective participation can be denied by cracking minority populations, the drawing of districts affects participation. Enforcement was difficult until Congress passed the VRA.

[muon2]

Proportional representation based on race or ethnicity is a profoundly evil idea to me, that makes my skin crawl.

How about based on party?

I don't know that I like the system it inevitably creates.  Multiple parties to represent the different parts of society rather than two big tent parties is obviously a huge plus.  The downsides are twofold; a political system prone to huge swings, exacerbating rather than moderating economic or societal problems (as can be seen, for example, in Greece) and an inevitable strict party line, meaning all independent voices in government are shut out.

It may not be as bad as you think. From 1870 to 1980 IL used a modified cumulative voting system to elect its lower chamber. There were three house seats per district and partisan proportionality was roughly followed by offering each voter three votes to cast including multiple votes on a single candidate. It arguably produced less partisan results than the current single member system. It was only discarded during public anger over a pay hike for legislators in 1978.

[muon2]

Proportional representation based on race or ethnicity is a profoundly evil idea to me, that makes my skin crawl.

How about based on party?

I don't know that I like the system it inevitably creates.  Multiple parties to represent the different parts of society rather than two big tent parties is obviously a huge plus.  The downsides are twofold; a political system prone to huge swings, exacerbating rather than moderating economic or societal problems (as can be seen, for example, in Greece) and an inevitable strict party line, meaning all independent voices in government are shut out.

It may not be as bad as you think. From 1870 to 1980 IL used a modified cumulative voting system to elect its lower chamber. There were three house seats per district and partisan proportionality was roughly followed by offering each voter three votes to cast including multiple votes on a single candidate. It arguably produced less partisan results than the current single member system. It was only discarded during public anger over a pay hike for legislators in 1978.

Yes, I remember that system when I was at the U of C, and quite liked it. Among other things, the few Pubs in my assembly district in Hyde Park were heavily romanced. I mean if you are one of about 300 Pubs, and can elect someone, suddenly you become rather important. We quite enjoyed the attention.    It does stack the deck in favor of moderation, no doubt about it.

However, as I remember the system, the minority party in each district elected one guy, and the majority party two guys.  If it was just cumulative voting, then no Pub would have been elected from Hyde Park of course.

IL used a modified form of cumulative voting. The 1970 constitution provided that no more than two candidates could run from a single party in a district. That's how Hyde Park got a Pub.

[muon2]

Some form of proportional representation would obviously be preferable.

You could never get it perfectly proportional short designating by that group A gets X amount of seats set garunteed, group B gets.. etc. But I would prefer moving closer to a world where race doesn't matter one way or another. And of course that world could never exist with VRA districts, regardless of if they're heart is in the right place.

Well, Louisiana is 32% Black; 2 VRA seats could be drawn giving Blacks 33% of the delegation. Pretty ideal as far as proportionality goes.

Only - in especially ugly form, as it was for some time in 90th - infamous "Z-shaped" district. Otherwise - unlikely: except for some very suburban white areas blacks are relatively uniformly distributed in state (of course there are some areas of concentration, but not THAT big, especially - after Katrina). And given almost complete refusal of Louisina's whites to support black candidates (what Obama got among them - 14% in 2008? In 2012 he, probably, will get less) - that becomes REALLY difficult

This is map with 2 VRA seats.

Purple- 52.9% Black VAP
Green- 50.4% Black VAP

The purple district splits a lot of parishes, but is much cleaner than the one of the 1990s.

But you kinda do have a point. While the green one is very Democratic (65% Obama), the purple one is only 56% Obama, meaning that only about 13% of whites voted for Obama. Maybe I should extended the top of the purple district further along the AR border so that it picks up more blacks from Shreveport. 
 

MUCH better then it was then. But not sure that 50.4%  (or even 52.9%) black district will surely elect  black. I remember about 2/3 black district in Louisiana's state Senate electing white (and relatively conservative) Democrat. It could even elect a Republican in bad year with low black turnout

Here's a strengthened version of the 2 VRA district plan while keeping splits down and equalizing population to within 20. I didn't have to go all the way to Shreveport. CD 2 is 52.1% BVAP, 65.3% Obama; CD 6 is 52.2% BVAP, 57.3% Obama. I think that both would offer sufficient opportunity for blacks to elect a candidate of choice.



It's also possible to draw two majority BVAP districts without going north much at all. I posted this right after the Census data came out in 2011. CD 2 is 51.5% black VAP, and CD 6 is 50.6% black VAP, but is up to 58.0% Obama.