SENATE BILL: Good Neighbor Resolution (Tabled)
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  SENATE BILL: Good Neighbor Resolution (Tabled)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Good Neighbor Resolution (Tabled)  (Read 1277 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: August 09, 2012, 03:24:30 PM »
« edited: August 18, 2012, 07:12:17 PM by Senator North Carolina Yankee »

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Sponsor: Redalgo
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2012, 03:28:51 PM »

Redalgo, you have 24 hours to explain this measure.
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2012, 06:44:41 PM »

I cannot support this.  It makes it to easy for a small group of Senators to hold up the Senate and attack their political opponents.
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Redalgo
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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2012, 07:11:59 PM »
« Edited: August 09, 2012, 07:16:38 PM by Redalgo »

I intended to extensively amend this prior to its introduction to the floor, and then was going to get rid of it altogether if my other amendment could pass but it has been debated long enough that this came up in the queue before the other legislation could be finished with. This is a fairly horrid mess and to be perfectly honest I have no clue how to promptly do away with it without risking a bad outcome in either case. If my constitutional amendment fails I will need this bill in an extensively modified form to revisit my foreign policy agenda, and if the amendment succeeds this resolution will be entirely superfluous, not to mention unnecessarily obstructive and flawed in ways previously brought to my attention by Senators in the protest thread.

Advice on how to proceed is warmly welcomed. I have been terribly disorganized, planned out my legislation in a rather poor fashion thus far in my first term, and have nothing at all to show for it - which, needless to say, is extremely frustrating and demotivational at the same time aside from quite possibly making me the most incompetent Senator who has served here in years. Unless I can get some good feedback within twenty-four hours, I may be inclined to simply withdraw this legislation (which I currently oppose despite being its sponsor) like one of my previous bills and become more passive - responding to others' bills instead of introducing anything in upcoming months. I am getting way too many negative experiences here in too quick of a procession. Tongue
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Napoleon
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« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2012, 07:15:22 PM »

Redalgo, you are far from incompetent. There is more to being an effective Senator than passing bills, I think you have been a great representative for the Midwest region and this resolution deserves an honest debate free from bombthrowing.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 07:43:59 PM »

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Does this mean that four Senators are enough to table a piece of legislation?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2012, 08:04:34 PM »

or even three Senators?
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Redalgo
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2012, 10:15:51 AM »

Under the current language, four Senators could table a bill.
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Sbane
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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2012, 04:30:31 PM »

Well that is completely unacceptable. I am not a big fan of the filibuster and this is basically the same but only for foreign policy.
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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2012, 04:32:27 PM »

Well that is completely unacceptable. I am not a big fan of the filibuster and this is basically the same but only for foreign policy.

This is precisely why I cannot support this bill.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 07:36:22 PM »

My suggestion would be to just use the existing procedures for tabling bills. Otherwise, a discontented minority of three or four on the expectation of not being able to vote a bill down, will just invoke this standard which is loosely defined and vague and use it to defeat everything from bills on airport naming to the national flower.

Also the use of the term "unilaterally" is problematic under the rules. Especially on withdrawing legislation. There is no unilateralism to be had as it is basically a procedure to replace the sponsor, upon which a failure to attain a replacement results in it being pulled from the floor.

As for amending, some PPTs have allowed sponsors to alter legislation on a whim outside the amendment process. However, during my various tenures I have typically required the use of the procedures for "sponsor originated amendments" unless it is a very mundane change like a spelling or a format error. The reason for this is once on the floor, the sponsor cedes control of the legislation to the collective will of the Senate and a sponsor shouldn't be able to overide the decision of a majority to amend the text through "extra-procedural" means that aren't even in the OSPR.
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Redalgo
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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 07:48:42 PM »

As I implied earlier on in the thread, I do not really support this legislation anymore. It's just that it came to the floor of the Senate before I could decide what to do with it, and now that it's here I am not sure how to change or get rid of it in a fashion I won't regret in a week or two's time. :<
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 08:07:10 PM »

First lesson every Senator should know, "nothing ever goes as planned or on time". Wink
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Napoleon
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2012, 05:31:04 PM »

I cannot support this.  It makes it to easy for a small group of Senators to hold up the Senate and attack their political opponents.

It is already easy for a single Senator to do that. There are solutions for that.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2012, 01:25:52 AM »

I cannot support this.  It makes it to easy for a small group of Senators to hold up the Senate and attack their political opponents.

It is already easy for a single Senator to do that. There are solutions for that.

Uh, would you care to elaborate on just how a single Senator under current rules may do that in any fashion similar to what this proposal risks unleashing?
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Napoleon
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« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2012, 01:33:56 AM »

I cannot support this.  It makes it to easy for a small group of Senators to hold up the Senate and attack their political opponents.

It is already easy for a single Senator to do that. There are solutions for that.

Uh, would you care to elaborate on just how a single Senator under current rules may do that in any fashion similar to what this proposal risks unleashing?

Of course not. I don't want to give anyone any "ideas". Evil
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2012, 01:41:55 AM »

I cannot support this.  It makes it to easy for a small group of Senators to hold up the Senate and attack their political opponents.

It is already easy for a single Senator to do that. There are solutions for that.

Uh, would you care to elaborate on just how a single Senator under current rules may do that in any fashion similar to what this proposal risks unleashing?

Of course not. I don't want to give anyone any "ideas". Evil

I served in the Senate with some of the greatest lone-wolf, discontented malcontents of all time and none of them have disrupted Senate proceedings to that extent.

Not to mention I have ways of dealing with such "inconveniences" should they arise. Evil
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CLARENCE 2015!
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« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2012, 01:02:41 PM »

I am sorry it's taken me so long to comment....

Redalgo, I respect you and your intentions here- but I believe we disagree in values slightly. I believe we must consider our nation's interests first and foremoest....even if they are not aligned with other nations. We must consider legislation based most importantly upon how it affects our nation.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2012, 05:51:13 PM »

Redalgo, have you made any decisions yet on how you want to pursue this?


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Redalgo
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« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2012, 09:58:01 PM »

If my associates here in the Senate would be so kind as to oblige, I want to table it.
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2012, 10:44:34 PM »

Agreed.  I'll second if necessary.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2012, 07:08:04 PM »

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Senators, a motion to table this legislation has been filed and has the second of another sitting Senator. A vote is thus open on the question of whether or not to table the underlying legislation, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain. This is a 48 hour vote.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2012, 07:09:32 PM »

Aye.
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2012, 09:32:55 PM »

Aye
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Redalgo
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« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2012, 12:37:56 AM »

Aye
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