Will there be a movement to deny Ryan communion?

[RI]

The Bishops have called out Ryan both for his budget and for his obsession with Rand, but he's not going to get denied communion because he isn't advocating as a representative for a mortal sin. That usually only happens for pro-choice Catholic pols.

[RI]

No, because he does, indeed, follow the Catholic Church's backwards-ass social morality.

Have you heard the Paul Ryan Personal Dictionary definition of the phrase 'preferential option for the poor'?

No, but I have heard the phrase 'ignorant, socially-unaware, anti-choice, homophobic dipstick'.

Or in other words, Catholic.

So brave. You must be so proud of yourself, taking on an evil, giant montrosity like the Catholic Church with your generic anti-Christian sentiments.

Let me add a little substance to your strawman. First, ignorant? Really? The Catholic Church is one of the most pro-science religious groups in the world. No other religious organization employs scientists with doctorates anywhere close to the ballpark of the Catholic Church. The Pope has his own team of scientists. The Catholic Church has been at the forefront of scientific discovery throughout history because it believes that science illuminates the creation of God. A Catholic priest originated the idea of the Big Bang theory. A Catholic friar described the mechanism for natural selection through genes. The Catholic Church accepts evolution, has discredited young-Earth creationism, and has actively helped in the search for extraterrestrial life. The Catholic Church has built more schools and universities that focus on science than any other institution in the history of the world.

Socially unaware? What does that even mean? The Catholic Church is the most socially conscious institution in the world. They've built more hospitals and orphanages than anyone in history. They actively perform and call others to perform incredible services for the poor. They have numerous charitable organizations that actually help people, moreso than the government could ever do.

Anti-choice? You could say that. I'm not going to argue abortion here. What's important is that the Church believes that abortion is wrong not because they want to "suppress women" or what have you, but because they genuinely care about ever human life. They are consistently pro-life in their teachings. The Church has condemned countless wars, condemned the death penalty, and have advocated for universal health care. On top of that, the actually have support programs for women who do choose to have their children. They have adoption services, counseling services, and support programs to make sure women don't have to choose to kill their children. They walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

Homophobic? Please. Just because the Church doesn't accept gay marriage doesn't mean they hate gays. Far from it. Unlike many conservative protestant churches, the Church doesn't believe being gay is a choice, believes that trying to change people from being gay is fundamentally an attack on their human dignity, and believes that you should treat everyone, regardless of sexual orientation equally. The Church believes in a theological basis for marriage that reflects the union of God and the Church and that sexual actions should be conducted out of sacrificial, self-giving love that is open to the aforementioned value of life. That doesn’t leave room for gay marriage, but it’s not because they hate gay people. By their view, saying gays can't get married is not any different than saying men can't give birth; it's definitionally impossible. Their position isn’t going to satisfy liberals and libertarians, but they don’t care about that. Why should they?

[RI]

Phil and realisticidealist, I'm kind of curious what you think of communion denial under any circumstances. My church is fine with communion to anyone who's a professing Christian. I really don't like the idea of cutting anyone off for some action as being "unworthy" or whatnot. I'm aware this rarely happens in the Catholic Church today but there are plenty that make a fuss about it, and then you have incidents like that priest in DC who denied it to a woman at her lesbian lover's funeral.

Assuming we're talking about politicians here, I'm not a fan of it, though I can understand why they do it. Catholic communion is a sign of communion with the whole Church, so I can understand if someone openly and majorly advocating against the views of the Church being denied, but it's not like they deny communion to lay people in a state of mortal sin (I presume because it would be impossible to enforce). For me, the fact that it's so arbitrarily enforced makes it seem like its just a political statement by some random bishop. I'd rather they either came up with a standard and enforced it or didn't bother. If they came out and said that all Catholic politicians who endorsed abortion rights were to be denied communion and were in a state of mortal sin, I'd be fine with that, but until then, I don't support it.

[RI]

No, because he does, indeed, follow the Catholic Church's backwards-ass social morality.

Have you heard the Paul Ryan Personal Dictionary definition of the phrase 'preferential option for the poor'?

Eh, religious people stopped following this compassion of Jesus thing. Compassion is mainly from atheists, these days.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/05/01/study-atheists-more-compassionate-than-highly-religious-people/

That study just says that atheists are most apt to do emotionally-stimulated personal random acts of kindness. There are many types of compassion and charity beyond simply this, though I commend them for it.

[RI]

Support for capital punishment and wars doesn't constitute grave matter?

I think the difference there is that there are limited circumstances when the Church is ok with war and the death penalty (eg repelling an invasion or killing someone who is a persisent and continuous threat to the lives of others and there is no means of holding them), whereas the Church is never ok with abortion.

[RI]

Three, all the books of the bible were written within 60 years of Christ's death on a cross.

I think you mean the New Testament... (or are using "were written within" to mean "were written by")