Will there be a movement to deny Ryan communion? (user search)
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  Will there be a movement to deny Ryan communion? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Will there be a movement to deny Ryan communion?  (Read 4770 times)
TJ in Oregon
TJ in Cleve
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,952
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: 6.96

« on: August 11, 2012, 11:44:27 PM »

No, that isn't going anywhere. In order to deny someone communion the Church has to have reason to believe that person is living in a state of mortal sin. When questionable, the person is to be given the benefit of the doubt. For a private citizen you practically have to walk up to the priest before Mass and say "Hey, I'm in a state of mortal sin!" to be denied communion (and even then as the Archdiocese of Washington lesbian-at-a-funeral scandal taught us all) the priest is supposed to tell the person he/she will be denied communion in private before doing so at Mass.

For a politician to be denied communion, he must endorse some grave action to be taken or oppose outlawing it. Pope Benedict back when he was Cardinal Ratzinger wrote that politicians who support legal abortion or euthanasia can be denied communion but it is determined on a case by case basis by the politican's local bishop. Some bishops have done this and others have not. It is far from a settled matter and really can't be without understanding the politician's intentions.

On the basis of economics it would extremely difficult to deny someone communion because the intentions quickly become so complex it would be nearly impossible for a bishop to say conclusively a politician intends to allow or commit some sort of grave sin. Abortion is an incredibly simple issue in the Catholic Church to begin with, while economics is not. And even if it were, the issue involved may not constitute grave matter, while abortion clearly does.
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TJ in Oregon
TJ in Cleve
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,952
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: 6.96

« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2012, 12:16:37 AM »


No. Pope John Paul II stated that "the direct and voluntary killing of an innocent human being is always gravely immoral." (emphasis added). He went on to say that capital punishment should not be used in most circumstances when other means can be. The position of the current pope is that capital punishment should be abolished; however, the Magisterium stops short of completely forbidding capital punishment under all circumstances.

Now, I personally think it becomes somewhat questionable to take the very narrow room in the Magisterium to advocate for capital punishment in the West, but the Church (barely) stops short of putting on the same level as abortion.

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It depends. Pope John Paul II condemned the Iraq War but did not state that all those who support or fought the war have committed a grave sin. There was a Romanian bishop who made headlines for declaring that, but Rome remained silent. The main reason for this is that despite having opposed beginning the war, the Church likely still favored the US over Saddam, such that any support for the US was not morally wrong. Again, it becomes rather complicated.

Also, the Catholic Church teaches that war can be justified under some circumstances, such as the War in Afghanistan.
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TJ in Oregon
TJ in Cleve
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,952
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: 6.96

« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 11:18:31 PM »

You have to take biblical literalism to the extreme to say it is, which is somewhat ironic because biblical literalists reject it. But jmfcst said something that I totally agree, if it wasn't the actual body and blood at the Last Supper, it certainly isn't later.

There's also this passage:

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