SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE: The Judiciary (UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT)
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #75 on: August 29, 2012, 08:11:18 PM »
« edited: August 29, 2012, 08:21:23 PM by Senator Scott »

Ben, please address Afleitch's concerns.

If the Committee members have any recommendations to make, please propose them now so that I may open a vote tomorrow.  I agree with the concept of the bill, though I agree that the wording should be changed so that it's more specific.
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Kaine for Senate '18
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« Reply #76 on: August 29, 2012, 10:54:32 PM »

Senators; I'm curious about this legislation.

Firstly I agree with Senator TJ's concern over intent; 'convicted of a crime related to his tenure' could mean anything; they could be convicted of any manner of misdemeanors relating to their tenure/employment and suffer a penalty which someone lower does not (such as sexual harassment for example which is of course abhorrent but this law could be used to throw the book at a CEO but not someone on the board or in lower management guilty of a similar offence) The wording should reflect the crime which I presume is specifically financial mismanagement.

I would also be wary of the wording of 'forfeit the benefits associated with his position upon departure from the current position' as that contradicts Section 2; some of what has been accrued pension wise will have been from before The person held their current position of CEO.

Your first concern: I think it needs to be amended to not only focus on CEOs; as to the misdemeanor, perhaps an amendment specifying either a felony or changing it to financial mismanagement.  Those both work.

My goal with the last two sections is to prevent a CEO from getting retirement benefits post conviction.  I'll let the more legally minded of my colleagues sort out details, as I wrote this in haste in order to get the idea out.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #77 on: August 29, 2012, 11:00:24 PM »

'Financial mismanagement' is still probably going to need a precise definition.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #78 on: August 30, 2012, 09:47:25 PM »
« Edited: August 30, 2012, 11:16:32 PM by Senator Scott »

Okay, let's put this thing to rest.

Members, please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain:

On recommendation to pass The Holding CEOs Accountable Act

On recommendation to amend Senator TJ's revisions to the legislation
The Holding CEOs Accountable Act

1.  Any CEO executive official or board member of a publically traded corporation convicted of a crime of corruption related to his tenure at the corporation shall forfeit the benefits associated with his position upon departure from the current position.

2. The term "pension" shall also include any stock options that the executive has been awarded but has not yet exercised.

3. Crimes of corruption include but are not limited to bribery, fraud, embezzlement, racketeering, and perjury.

4.  If the CEO is convicted after he has begun to collect his retirement, then the retirement shall be severed for all future years. The provisions in Section 1 will not apply to any payment already made to the executive official or board member.

5.  This legislation shall take effect for all convictions occurring after January 1, 2013.


1. Abstain.
2. Aye.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #79 on: August 30, 2012, 11:10:55 PM »

Scott if you don't mind, I would like to try a revision of the bill to vote on with the final vote (Sorry for taking such a long time to post this, real life has been getting in the way Wink):

The Holding CEOs Accountable Act

1.  Any CEO executive official or board member of a publically traded corporation convicted of a crime of corruption related to his tenure at the corporation shall forfeit the benefits associated with his position upon departure from the current position.

2. The term "pension" shall also include any stock options that the executive has been awarded but has not yet exercised.

3. Crimes of corruption include but are not limited to bribery, fraud, embezzlement, racketeering, and perjury.

4.  If the CEO is convicted after he has begun to collect his retirement, then the retirement shall be severed for all future years. The provisions in Section 1 will not apply to any payment already made to the executive official or board member.

5.  This legislation shall take effect for all convictions occurring after January 1, 2013.

I still worry this could risk being struck down by a court as an ex post facto law in a world where corporate executives were actually present and had real money (though I doubt anyone here would take up their mantle) for the stock option provision, but without it, the bill would have no teeth whatsoever. In fact, without a true ex post facto law, all an executive would need to do is retire and cash in all his options immediately to avoid conviction, so this will have limited value.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #80 on: August 30, 2012, 11:16:32 PM »

Haha, all right.  I added it to the ballot. Smiley
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #81 on: August 31, 2012, 11:56:02 AM »

1. Nay
2. Aye
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #82 on: September 01, 2012, 08:19:42 PM »

Scott, "Now you cut that fence and get this goddamned platoon on the move".


lol Band of Brothers line drop. Tongue


This bill will probably be on the floor tomorrow.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #83 on: September 01, 2012, 08:22:12 PM »

Tongue I just PMed Seatown a minute ago.  This will finish tonight.
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LastVoter
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« Reply #84 on: September 01, 2012, 10:03:00 PM »
« Edited: September 01, 2012, 10:04:55 PM by Senator Seatown »

1. Abstain
2. Aye
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #85 on: September 01, 2012, 11:08:32 PM »

By a vote of 2-1, the Committee abstains on endorsing the legislation in its current form

By a vote of 3-0, the Committee recommends that Senator TJ's amendment be added to the bill.

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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #86 on: September 02, 2012, 07:17:34 PM »

This committee will now consider the Capital Punishment Abolition Amendment, sponsored by Senator TJ.

Capital Punishment Abolition Amendment

Article VI of the Third Constitution Shall be amended as follows:
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TJ, please speak on behalf of this legislation.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #87 on: September 02, 2012, 07:43:59 PM »

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First I would like to acknowledge what a quick turn-around that was! Smiley

We have spent countless threads (and hours) as a senate body infighting about whether or when our constitution should expressedly ban conscription despite it not being in force. I would like to see the same discussion on another topic that is banned by statute: capital punishment.

Capital punishment where implemented has not been shown to be a crime deterrent. It is often more costly than life imprisonment because of the cost of many appeals. In many cases, capital punishment is used as an instrument of revenge for the family of a victim than to protect a community against violence. If the government can take a man's life in a civilian court where society could be protected as well with him behind bars, what can it not take? If there is an injustice in our constitution, the lack of protection of the right to life is the greatest. While the largest violation of this within our borders is in the multitude of legal abortions performed every day, the political lines we are so deeply beholden to prevent such a constitutional protection in a broad sense; however, I believe that our ideological divide is not a chasm so great that it cannot be crossed for this one simple measure. I believe this is a measure that can and should be passed in this committee, in our senate, and by the Atlasian public.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and I yield back the rest of my time.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #88 on: September 02, 2012, 08:07:35 PM »

I endorse the amendment in its current form and recommend no changes. Smiley

Seatown, your thoughts?
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LastVoter
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« Reply #89 on: September 03, 2012, 12:35:23 AM »

Obviously endorsed, I would have thought the Atlasian senate would have gotten around to banning capital punishment already.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #90 on: September 03, 2012, 11:44:16 AM »

Obviously endorsed, I would have thought the Atlasian senate would have gotten around to banning capital punishment already.

Several attempts have been made in years past, and each time we've come close to abolishing it, but never quite close enough. Sad With a strong effort, I think we could get it passed this time.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #91 on: September 05, 2012, 02:09:21 PM »

A recommendation vote will open tonight.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #92 on: September 05, 2012, 11:47:58 PM »

This may end up on the floor soon (if not now, then tomorrow some time), so I am glad that things progressed so smoothly.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #93 on: September 06, 2012, 12:22:41 AM »

We will now vote on the committee recommendation:

On recommendation to amend the Capital Punishment Abolition Amendment to the Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia



Aye.
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TJ in Oregon
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« Reply #94 on: September 06, 2012, 10:01:04 PM »

Aye
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LastVoter
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« Reply #95 on: September 07, 2012, 01:01:44 AM »

Aye
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #96 on: September 07, 2012, 01:14:44 AM »

By a vote of 3-0, the Committee recommends that the Senate pass the Capital Punishment Abolition Amendment.



Due to the fact that the Senate session is almost over, and that our queue is currently empty (accomplished bills will be added soon), this Committee is now adjourned.

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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #97 on: September 30, 2012, 01:35:06 AM »
« Edited: September 30, 2012, 01:40:48 AM by Senator Scott »



As Chair, I call this committee to order.

So we're pretty much off to a rough start thanks to half the session being gone.  On top of that, I will be leaving the Senate in a month (possibly less) and the Senate is going to have to select someone else to fill my spot and the chairmanship.  Right now, I would like to get straight to business, so I'd appreciate it if my fellow members could make the debates and the votes when they are called... which I know one of you aren't terribly good at doing. Tongue

The bills on the queue that I think fit most under our jurisdiction are the Omnibus Gun Policy & Safety Act, the DREAM Act, the Go to the Doctor Instead Act, the Separate Elections Amendment, the Blast From the Game Reform Past Amendment and the Amendment to the Amendment Amendment.  There's no way in hell we're going to get through all that before they reach the floor, but would the members agree to considering those bills in that order?
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Napoleon
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« Reply #98 on: September 30, 2012, 01:39:17 AM »

Is the PPT actually going to bring the Go To the Doctor Instead Act to the Senate floor? It literally does nothing. Your committee could just skip over it if you find time to be short.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #99 on: September 30, 2012, 01:41:52 AM »

Is the PPT actually going to bring the Go To the Doctor Instead Act to the Senate floor? It literally does nothing. Your committee could just skip over it if you find time to be short.

It's definitely low priority compared to the other bills on the queue.  If we don't have enough time, I probably will have us skip it.
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