SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE: The Judiciary (UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT)
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  SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE: The Judiciary (UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT)
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Author Topic: SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE: The Judiciary (UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT)  (Read 6066 times)
Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #100 on: September 30, 2012, 01:57:55 AM »

We can remove it from consideration, really. I don't want us to waste time on it when there are other more important things for us to discuss. In fact, I meant to remove it from the que awhile ago, so I'll go delete it.
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HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #101 on: September 30, 2012, 01:59:58 AM »

I'm fine with your order, Scott. Smiley
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #102 on: September 30, 2012, 05:38:32 PM »

Excellent.

To begin...

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Senator Marokai, please speak in defense of this legislation.
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« Reply #103 on: October 01, 2012, 10:02:51 PM »

Marokai, please speak. Smiley
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #104 on: October 01, 2012, 10:12:07 PM »

Alrighty! So, Atlasia basically has no codified national gun laws, and given many recent shootings, I think there's never been a more appropriate time to consider a national omnibus gun law.

The first thing I think is important, regardless of the contents, is that we at least create a good foundation as a starting point for any future gun safety laws, similar to how we now file trade agreements; into an omnibus to discourage a million different pieces of the statute.

Beyond that, though, I think it's finally time we get some decent safety laws. Much of this comes from the (partially repealed) Brady Bill in RL, the expired Assault Weapons Ban in RL, and some minor things that the gun safety movement has proposed in RL like serial numbers engraved into guns and ammunition, clip size, restricting the amount bought within a single month, things like that, as well as tightening background check laws and nationalizing a basic set of concealed carry laws and a registry.

It's mostly pretty centrist stuff, honestly. Almost nothing is really outright banned, people can still own plenty of guns, nothing prevents people from hunting, there's no big overreach, it's all just preventing excesses. People don't need to have enhanced weapons built for automatic firing or military grade weapons, people can get buy perfectly fine purchasing two firearms a month (which doesn't affect business), law enforcement could be greatly enhanced by a registry (which doesn't impede on civil liberties) and serial number engravings.. it prevents easily accessed crimes, encourages (with the buyout program) getting some guns off the street, and empowers law enforcement as it relates to gun crimes, while preserving the right to bear arms. Just doing so more responsibly.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #105 on: October 01, 2012, 10:37:00 PM »

I generally agree with the components of this bill.  The only problem is that these regulations may come into conflict with the Constitution, because the Constitution is not clear if any restrictions are allowed at all (hence why I was a tad reluctant to bring up gun control legislation).  Afleitch told me last month that there haven't been significant gun restrictions passed before, so this bill might have to overcome some obstacles for it to become law.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #106 on: October 01, 2012, 11:23:13 PM »

I generally agree with the components of this bill.  The only problem is that these regulations may come into conflict with the Constitution, because the Constitution is not clear if any restrictions are allowed at all (hence why I was a tad reluctant to bring up gun control legislation).  Afleitch told me last month that there haven't been significant gun restrictions passed before, so this bill might have to overcome some obstacles for it to become law.

If nothing else it's probably long overdue that we decide what is constitutional and not as far as gun safety laws go.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #107 on: October 02, 2012, 10:58:43 PM »

Penny for your thoughts, Hagrid? Tongue
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #108 on: October 04, 2012, 01:44:42 PM »

HAGRID!!!
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #109 on: October 04, 2012, 05:21:20 PM »
« Edited: October 04, 2012, 09:07:04 PM by HagridOfTheDeep »

I appreciate the sentiment of the bill, and there are a number of clauses I could support. However, I’m slightly concerned that some of its provisions could be construed as unconstitutional.

Namely, Article VI, Section 5 states that “the right to keep and bear fire-arms and low-potency explosives shall not be infringed.” Section 2, Clause 1 of this bill does exactly that for numerous groups of people. That being said, I agree that it should be harder for many of these people to own guns. To maintain the spirit of the bill but ensure it would survive a constitutional challenge, I’d recommend amending Section 2, Clause 1 to read:

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Also, on a personal note, I think some of these groups are being treated a little harshly. Being convicted for a money-related offense doesn’t make someone especially more or less likely to use a firearm to commit a crime. Same goes for being dishonorably discharged from the army—in fact, those people could actually be in a better position to use their firearms for causes of good in the event that a violent situation transpires.

Section 2, Clause 1 is also slightly concerning. While our constitution does not specifically grant privacy rights to our citizens, those rights are implied in Article VI, Section 9: “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, communications and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.“ Could this new gun registry not be seen as an unreasonable search into people’s private property? Either way, I’m certainly against spending taxpayer dollars to encourage people to put their names on the registry.

Anyhow, those are most of my thoughts and concerns. I apologize for coming in late on this. Hopefully it won’t happen again.

Cheers.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #110 on: October 06, 2012, 12:31:41 AM »

If no one has anything else to say, I will move to recommendation votes tomorrow.
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HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #111 on: October 06, 2012, 01:37:57 PM »

I'd like to know what the SoIA thinks of this bill.
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« Reply #112 on: October 07, 2012, 02:01:06 PM »

Under the rules, I must move to a final vote at 6:38 this afternoon.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #113 on: October 07, 2012, 05:49:12 PM »
« Edited: October 07, 2012, 05:58:17 PM by Senator Scott »

Time has expired.  Members, please vote on the recommendations.



On recommendation to pass the Omnibus Gun Policy & Safety Act

On recommendation to amend Section 2, Clause 1 to read: "The following individuals shall be prohibited from possessing, transporting, buying or selling firearms."
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HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #114 on: October 07, 2012, 05:55:58 PM »

On recommendation to pass the Omnibus Gun Policy & Safety Act

Abstain

On recommendation to amend Section 2, Clause 1 to read: "The following individuals shall be prohibited from possessing, transporting, buying or selling firearms:"

Aye
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #115 on: October 07, 2012, 05:58:00 PM »

On recommendation to pass the Omnibus Gun Policy & Safety Act
Aye.

On recommendation to amend Section 2, Clause 1 to read: "The following individuals shall be prohibited from possessing, transporting, buying or selling firearms."
Abstain.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #116 on: October 08, 2012, 03:46:04 PM »

This vote will end at 6:38 whether Marokai votes or not.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #117 on: October 08, 2012, 07:17:42 PM »

Sorry for being out of commission in the last couple days, haven't felt well. I suppose it doesn't matter now, but I would've voted aye to pass, nay to amend.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #118 on: October 08, 2012, 08:36:58 PM »

Unfortunately, the committee fails to reach a consensus on either item. Tongue  Although technically, we recommend passage of the bill and are neutral (1-1-1) on Senator Hagrid's amendment.

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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #119 on: October 08, 2012, 08:40:54 PM »

This committee will now consider the Separate Elections Amendment, also sponsored by Senator Marokai Blue.

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Senator, please speak on behalf of this legislation.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #120 on: October 09, 2012, 11:24:38 AM »

I think the GOR should take a crack at it too if we have time, and we may not, since it is a Reform of the Gov't structure. Would you have a problem with that if time were to allow for it, Chairman Scott?


Don't let that Marokai screw around with you. If he doesn't respond be tonight, start sending him disturbing PMs every five hours till he appears. He deserves it and more after all the trouble he has caused this session, then to be so unavailable on top of thati s just a slap in the face that shouldn't be tollerated. Tongue
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #121 on: October 09, 2012, 12:41:09 PM »

It's technically not my decision to make, but I'm hesitant to support doing that.  I don't think much came out of collaborative committee work the last time we tried it.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #122 on: October 09, 2012, 07:08:23 PM »

I've argued in favor of various VP reforms in the past with roughly the same approach; I don't believe the Vice Presidency should be a political football and should be vastly improved, and the only way people will give it the respect and attention it deserves is if it is a position that stands independently as opposed to being the President's assistant.

Moreover, it attempts to prevent what I'm hereby coining as "Smid-Bacon King Syndrome" of very attractive Vice Presidential picks of very nice and appealing people, but ultimately fall very inactive because virtually no pressure is applied to them aside from them being on a ticket and smiling to get votes during an election. If each were elected independently, each candidate for each position would be picked on their own merits, and the latter would be held to a higher standard.

I believe, anyway.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #123 on: October 10, 2012, 01:23:04 AM »

Why can't these people just become masochists like me? Then competative elections wouldn't be as necessary, as their sharpest critic is internal. Evil
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #124 on: October 10, 2012, 08:29:50 PM »

I don't really have much to add to the discussion here. I don't see why this bill is necessary. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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