Biden: Romney will "put ya'll back in chains"

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Another classic Biden gaffe.  The party that tried to keep blacks in chains accusing the party that unchained them of trying to put Americans "back in chains."

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Another classic Biden gaffe.  The party that tried to keep blacks in chains accusing the party that unchained them of trying to put Americans "back in chains."

Yeah, talk about ingrates with this "what have you done for me lately" attitude.  I mean it was only a 150 years ago.

Yeah, but for over 100 years after the Civil War, Democrats oppressed blacks by fighting against bans on lynching, racial segregation, and protecting blacks against the KKK.  Republicans consistently fought for freedom for blacks and continue to do so by encouraging work to make them independent of government assistance.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

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Last I checked it was Republicans who voted in the Civil Rights act.

What exactly have Democrats ever done for African Americans?

Wait, Lyndon Johnson was a Republican?

Todays Dem and GOP parties are not the parties they were 45 years ago. The Dixie-crats who opposed the CRA moved to the GOP, that was the whole point of the "Southern Strategy." As for the Rockefeller Republicans who supported it, well they are what is called RINOs today.

No.  The vast majority of segregationist Democrats did not become Republicans.  The only one who did was Strom Thurmond.  Former Klansman Robert Byrd of WV was serving in the Senate as a Democrat as recently as 2010.  Fomer segregationist Fritz Hollings of SC was serving in the Senate as a Democrat as recently as 2004.  As for the Southern strategy wa actually an attempt to convince Southern moderates who supported civil rights to vote Republican as a protest againat the segregationist Democrats.  Check it our for yourself:

 http://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-the-neocons-and-nixons-southern-strategy-512
 http://m.youtube.com/?reload=7&rdm=m8pwv04xb#/watch?v=ZT7pASof8Lc

Yeah, but for over 100 years after the Civil War, Democrats oppressed blacks by fighting against bans on lynching, racial segregation, and protecting blacks against the KKK.  Republicans consistently fought for freedom for blacks and continue to do so by encouraging work to make them independent of government assistance.

That's not the same Republican Party as the one now. Stop twisting history.

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Last I checked it was Republicans who voted in the Civil Rights act.

What exactly have Democrats ever done for African Americans?

Wait, Lyndon Johnson was a Republican?

I believe he's referring to the many Republicans in Congress who voted for the Civil Rights Act. You know, those dreaded "RINO" moderates.

Barry Goldwater and other conservatives like the Southern Democrats didn't vote for it, of course.

LBJ was only able to pass the 1964 Civil Rights Act with the overwhelming Republican support it received, including from Senate Minorty Leader Everett Dirksen (R-Illinois).  And even then, Johnson was a racist who had opppsed civil rights prior to becoming president, including the 1957 and 1960 Civil Rights Acts.  He only supported he 1964 CRA because the public supported it.  When Goldwater opposed it, he did it because he felt it was a states' issue, not because he was a racist.  In fact, Goldwater was a founding member of the NAACP in Arizona and had been instrumental in making his family's department stores in Phoenix some of the first businesses in the state to desegregate.  Meanwhile, shortly after s/gning the 1964 CRA,  Johnson told a group of Southern governors, "I'll have those nig**rs voting Democratic for the next 200 years."  To claim that "conservatives like he Southern Democrats" opposed it is misleading too, because not all Southern Democrats were segregationists, and since the definitions of "liberal" and "conservative" change over time, so what may have been deemed as politically conservative or liberal uen may be different from what it would be now.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Last I checked it was Republicans who voted in the Civil Rights act.

What exactly have Democrats ever done for African Americans?

Wait, Lyndon Johnson was a Republican?

Todays Dem and GOP parties are not the parties they were 45 years ago. The Dixie-crats who opposed the CRA moved to the GOP, that was the whole point of the "Southern Strategy." As for the Rockefeller Republicans who supported it, well they are what is called RINOs today.

No.  The vast majority of segregationist Democrats did not become Republicans.  The only one who did was Strom Thurmond.  Former Klansman Robert Byrd of WV was serving in the Senate as a Democrat as recently as 2010.  Fomer segregationist Fritz Hollings of SC was serving in the Senate as a Democrat as recently as 2004.  As for the Southern strategy wa actually an attempt to convince Southern moderates who supported civil rights to vote Republican as a protest againat the segregationist Democrats.  Check it our for yourself:

 http://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-the-neocons-and-nixons-southern-strategy-512
 http://m.youtube.com/?reload=7&rdm=m8pwv04xb#/watch?v=ZT7pASof8Lc

Yeah, but for over 100 years after the Civil War, Democrats oppressed blacks by fighting against bans on lynching, racial segregation, and protecting blacks against the KKK.  Republicans consistently fought for freedom for blacks and continue to do so by encouraging work to make them independent of government assistance.

That's not the same Republican Party as the one now. Stop twisting history.

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Last I checked it was Republicans who voted in the Civil Rights act.

What exactly have Democrats ever done for African Americans?

Wait, Lyndon Johnson was a Republican?

I believe he's referring to the many Republicans in Congress who voted for the Civil Rights Act. You know, those dreaded "RINO" moderates.

Barry Goldwater and other conservatives like the Southern Democrats didn't vote for it, of course.

LBJ was only able to pass the 1964 Civil Rights Act with the overwhelming Republican support it received, including from Senate Minorty Leader Everett Dirksen (R-Illinois).  And even then, Johnson was a racist who had opppsed civil rights prior to becoming president, including the 1957 and 1960 Civil Rights Acts.  He only supported he 1964 CRA because the public supported it.  When Goldwater opposed it, he did it because he felt it was a states' issue, not because he was a racist.  In fact, Goldwater was a founding member of the NAACP in Arizona and had been instrumental in making his family's department stores in Phoenix some of the first businesses in the state to desegregate.  Meanwhile, shortly after s/gning the 1964 CRA,  Johnson told a group of Southern governors, "I'll have those nig**rs voting Democratic for the next 200 years."  To claim that "conservatives like he Southern Democrats" opposed it is misleading too, because not all Southern Democrats were segregationists, and since the definitions of "liberal" and "conservative" change over time, so what may have been deemed as politically conservative or liberal uen may be different from what it would be now.

But the point with Byrd and Hollings is that they changed. The Southern Strategy was also, at its core, playing on the racial fears of many Southern Democrats over Democratic positions on race. Also, I don't think Johnson was a racist, but in the 50's he had to be pragmatic to avoid losing the southern wing of the party. But other bits of your answer are very good, IMO.

Right. I studied LBJ in a class I took in school, and he was no civil rights trailblazer. He signed it because the public wanted it, and the bill passed with overwhelming Republican support and declared the Democrats would have the "negro" vote for generations to come.

That said, most of the racist Democrats switched parties, so today's GOP isn't the same as yesterdays, but the Democrats still want to keep the black man down, remind them they are at a disadvantage, etc... and those type of things will never end racism in this country. Of course Biden was playing the race card here, but it's what I have come to expect from Obama. They must divide and conquer. It's like the GOP using gay marriage/abortion in the past. It's politics, but I wish it wasn't that way because we have bigger fish to fry than that.

The octogenarians and nonagenerians you mentioned made their peace with integration and changed their views; the others died out in the '80s. It's same way that some liberal Republicans have hung on in the north, many of them moderating on issues like abortion where the party now has a solid viewpoint.

Why did Thurmond switch to the Republicans if it was the exact opposite direction he should have gone in?

I assume he switched like many of the others because of the civil rights bill LBJ signed. Granted, it made no sense given it was the GOP that helped pass the bill with overwhelming support, but they were not always the most rational people.

That said, everyone knows Strom was no racist with that black child he fathered..

George Wallace had a change of heart too, and he never became a Republican.  But Bull Connor, Lester Maddox, George Mahoney, Sam Ervin, Al Gore Sr., Herman Talmadge, Orval Faubus, and the others all stayed Democrats for their entire political careers (and showed no sings to my knowledge of ever changing their views).  And I don't think they ever really changed their views on race much.  In 1993, Fritz Hollings made a comment about African potentates at the Law of the Sea Conference "getting a good square meal in Geneva" instead of "eating each other".  In 2001, Robert Byrd repeatedly used the term "white nig**r" in an interview on Fox News.
Most of the Southern Democrats who did become Republicans were not segregationists and didn't do so until the 80s and 90s, and those that did it earlier than that did it for reasons that had little to do with race.  And about the Southern Strategy: did you even check the links I posted?  It would have made no sense for Nixon to go after white racists in 1968 because most of them were already supporting Wallace. 
As for Thurmond fathering a black child, I've heard about that before, but was it ever proven?

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Right. I studied LBJ in a class I took in school, and he was no civil rights trailblazer. He signed it because the public wanted it, and the bill passed with overwhelming Republican support and declared the Democrats would have the "negro" vote for generations to come.

That said, most of the racist Democrats switched parties, so today's GOP isn't the same as yesterdays, but the Democrats still want to keep the black man down, remind them they are at a disadvantage, etc... and those type of things will never end racism in this country. Of course Biden was playing the race card here, but it's what I have come to expect from Obama. They must divide and conquer. It's like the GOP using gay marriage/abortion in the past. It's politics, but I wish it wasn't that way because we have bigger fish to fry than that.

This is a good post.

Also, some people on here need to realize that most people who were adults in the South during segregation are now dead. Many of them stayed Democrats for life even if many of them voted Republican at the presidential (e.g., largely for national security reasons after the disastrous selection of George McGovern in 1972). Then again, let's not forget that it was Wallace, a Democrat running as an Independent, who won much of the South in 1968. It was Carter, a Democrat, who won much of the South in 1976. It was the South that was closest in 1980 with even Dukakis doing well there in '88 before his implosion (with Bentsen chosen to help deliver Texas). Clinton did fairly well for himself in the South.

In the final analysis, "Nixon's Southern Strategy" is completely blown out of proportion for whatever reason(s).

Exactly.  The latests academic research shows that it was a combination of economic issues, in-migration from areas that had previously been more Republican in the past, and the religious conservatives' shift toward Republican in 1980 (Reagan) that helped move the South toward the GOP, not race.  The Southern strategy had nothing to do with pandering to racists, either.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Here it is.  The author is by all appearances a liberal professor and obviously subscribes to the liberal narrative on the Southern strategy, but he nonetheless debunks the myth that the shift toward Republicans in the South was based on race:
 http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.928/article_detail.asp

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Here it is.  The author is by all appearances a liberal professor and obviously subscribes to the liberal narrative on the Southern strategy, but he nonetheless debunks the myth that the shift toward Republicans in the South was based on race:
 http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.928/article_detail.asp

Ever hear of Lee Atwater? He admitted the southern strategy. What other explanation is there for a mainly Northern, moderate party making gains in the South? It's very clear what it was about and no one can deny it.

Lee Atwater claimed a lot of things. Dude even claimed he found Jesus in a particular version of a Bible he claimed to read all of the time. When folks went to retrieve his possessions after his death, they found that Bible still in the plastic-wrap. Bottomline: A spin doctor is going to spin and exaggerate. The Willie Horton ad was undeniably effective (And Atwater stole the idea from Al Gore's 1988 primary campaign), but it was because it showed how weak Dukakis was on crime. The ad would have been almost exactly as effective had Horton happened to be a white male. The rational response from people who saw the ad was, "what the hell kind of governor lets monsters like that go out on weekend furloughs?" not "BRING BACK DUH SEGREGATION! LONG LIVE DIXIE!" as evidenced by Dukakis' poor performance across the entire country, not just the South.
Explain Carter's massive success in 1976 and relative success in 1980 with regards to the South. Furthermore, explain Clinton's success in the South in 1992 and 1996.

Exactly.  How many times do I have to repeat that the Southern strategy had nothing to do with catering to racists?  I posted Pat Buchanan's article and the YouTube video as evidence.  As for Lee Atwater using the N-word to describe the Southern strategy, there is no solid evidence of that.  A liberal professor made that claim years after Atwater had died and claimed that he said it in 1981.  When Atwater died, the New York Times ran an obituary trashing him, and that quote was not in there.  Furthermore, if he had really said that, then why hadn't that professor addressed it in 1981 when it was new and could have destroyed his political career?
If the Southern strategy worked, it was because Republicans were successful at convincing pro-civil rights moderates who had moved into the South from other parts of the country to vote for them as a protest against the segregationists in the Democratic Party.

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If black people vote 95:5 Democrat on average, and wealthier black people vote 80:20 Democrat on average - how have they benefited?

It may not be of much benefit to Republicans, but there's still  a big difference between 5% of blacks voting Republican and 20% voting Republican.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

It just seems like another one of those myths about race that the Democrats have pushed so much that we've all started to believe it. Everybody believing it is a real phenomenon certainly serves the agenda of the Democratic Party, especially when it comes to motivating African-Americans (especially in Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore and the northeast) to vote reliably Democrat with no consideration of an alternative.

If "Nixon's Southern Strategy" was so effective, how come Carter won all but one state in the South back in '76, a few short years after Nixon's "master plan"? And how come the South was the most competitive region in 1980?

Ford and Reagan both won white Southerners; Carter won by winning blacks overwhelmingly and doing reasonably well with whites.

Yeah, but Ford was a moderate Republican who voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. (http://www.humanevents.com/2007/01/07/the-legacy-of-gerald-ford/)  It's undeniable that Carter's strength in the South lay in part with blacks and with white religious conservatives.  The religious conservative vote was where much of Reagan's strength lay in 1980, too, though the South was the closest region in that election.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

If the Southern strategy worked, it was because Republicans were successful at convincing pro-civil rights moderates who had moved into the South from other parts of the country to vote for them as a protest against the segregationists in the Democratic Party.

A simple look at county maps of presidential elections post 1972 along with an understanding of ethnic make-ups of these counties would heartily dispel that comical notion you've put forward.

How is that comical?  Nixon was a strong supporter of civil rights and refused to compromise that even during the 1968 campaign (http://www.scribd.com/doc/100265457/The-Truth-Nixon-s-Southern-Strategy,.  Remember, 1972 was an outlier because the Dems put up an extremely liberal candidate (McGovern) and Nixon won by a landslide.  The party shift had nothing to do with race; even the liberal professor who wrote the article I posted earlier ("The Myth of the Racist Republicans") has said so.  In fact, what you are doing is described in the article: people assume that white Southerners are racist (even now) and that race is still the overriding factor in Southern elections.  But just for the sake of it, here's the article again, plus two more that describe and debunk this myth well:
 http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.928/article_detail.asp

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/300432/party-civil-rights-kevin-d-williamson

http://www.scribd.com/doc/100265457/The-Truth-Nixon-s-Southern-Strategy

And here is a video that also backs this up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT7pASof8Lc

[Oldiesfreak1854]

If "Nixon's Southern Strategy" was so effective, how come Carter won all but one state in the South back in '76, a few short years after Nixon's "master plan"? And how come the South was the most competitive region in 1980?

Race was not the only factor, and I don't think anyone ever suggested it was. A lot of Carter's appeal in the South was based on the "he's one of us" factor.  He also represented the moderate wing of the Democratic party.

Race was not a factor at all. 

haha, what a thread.

Racist.

WHERE IS PETE HOEKSTRA?

I live in Michigan and voted for Hoekstra in the GOP primary (and will again in the general), but he's not a racist.  He just ran an ad that was racist because he got poor advice from his media team.

Gotta have a thick Indiana accent to go into a 7-Eleven!

Or Dunkin' Donuts!  And I'm not joking!