SENATE BILL: National University and General Education Reform bill (Law'd)

[Sbane]

Ben's amendment is friendly.

Sorry I have been AWOL. I think a national university system would be great for Atlasia and increase the amount of institutions available where students can get a quality education at a lower price. These universities will also be engines of innovation and will provide more funding and facilities for research. This will be in addition to the same services already being provided by our regional universities. No funding is being taken away from them and this is not a competition with them.

As for for-profit universities, I think on the whole they are bad for students. Our students could learn the same things from a more reputable place at a lower cost. This is why funding is being increased for vocational training in secondary schools and community colleges.

[Sbane]

I'd like Shua to tell us if the money currently in the bill is sufficient.

Not really, no.  The $35 million is enough to construct a medium-size academic building.  Community colleges can cost about 5 times that much. 
I'm not sure what is meant by "accommodating the local community," but $15 million for faculty is enough for a small university of a few thousand students (though funding for non-faculty staff will need to be provided somewhere as well).

Could you let us know how much money would need to be appropriated to build these universities.

[Sbane]

I was thinking a large research university. 20,000 undergraduate students and about 8,000 graduate students.

[Sbane]

I don't have much of aproblem with this proposal... however, I would like to see it reach more then 20K students...the university near my home has over 50K and I believe a national university with many campuses ought to have more... if the purpose is to provide access to a college education

I also believe there is merit to involving the regions and also specializing the various universities

I think most state universities are about the size I proposed. Maybe that's not true for the really big ones like University of Florida or Ohio State University but I wouldn't mind if our universities were a little smaller than that. I find your idea about specializing the universities to be interesting. What were you thinking of in particular.

Also Ben's amendment is friendly. Though do we need to appropriate even more? Shua, I would like a tuition rate of $7,500 per year for undergrads and $10,000 per year for graduate students. How much is the shortfall after taking into account Ben's amendment. I can do the math but I don' t know if schools have alternative revenue sources, especially in an university with research facilities and sports programs.

[Sbane]

Can we add in a conscienctious objector clause to the tax section to exempt religious institutions who reject student loans for philosophical reasons?

Do you know anyone who manages a parochial college that objects to student loans for philosophical reasons?

See Shua's post from a page ago.

He didn't mention any specific schools. Do you have an example?

[Sbane]

Sbane, what are your thoughts on including an exemption?

I don't think we can create an exemption for just philosophical reasons because every for-profit school will claim the same. The easiest way to remedy the situation is to apply the tax only to for-profit schools but that would likely be unconstitutional.

[Sbane]

I object to Ben's amendment and it is unfriendly now. We need to appropriate more money to construct and run the university. Here is my own amendment:

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[Sbane]

I could understand if it's a religious objection but just saying it's philosophical really opens up pandora's box.

[Sbane]

I would be fine with restricting the tax to for-profit schools.

[Sbane]

Seatown's amendment is unfriendly. I thought that was obvious, Yankee.

[Sbane]

Nay

[Sbane]

Yes, I request a final vote.

[Sbane]

Aye

[Sbane]

I knew something was wrong here and have for two weeks. Now I know why, I completely missed this post by Sbane. It was the last post on that page and discussion carried over onto the next one so I missed it. Sbane, why didn't you call me out on this when at the beginning of the month, when I asked about remaining business?

I object to Ben's amendment and it is unfriendly now. We need to appropriate more money to construct and run the university. Here is my own amendment:

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Did someone actually object to my amendment? I guess we do need to vote on Ben's amendment even though I just appropriated more money than he did.

[Sbane]

It would be great if Ben could just withdraw his amendment, and mine can pass without objection. Then the bill could be voted on it's merits.

[Sbane]

Aye