The National Automobile Slum

[bgwah]

Here's a semi-old comic (though the video in question is pretty old, too) that might shed a little light on what's happening

[fezzyfestoon]

This discussion is horrible. It's not about whether cities or suburbs are better, it's about how to make suburbs (and even towns and cities) better than they are now. But I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that conservatives viciously lash out at any criticism or suggestion of change rather than take in another point of view. What a mess.

[fezzyfestoon]

Here's a semi-old comic (though the video in question is pretty old, too) that might shed a little light on what's happening

Haha that's great

[後援会]

This discussion is horrible. It's not about whether cities or suburbs are better, it's about how to make suburbs (and even towns and cities) better than they are now. But I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that conservatives viciously lash out at any criticism or suggestion of change rather than take in another point of view. What a mess.

It's hardly a "conservative/leftist" thing. Certainly, I do think it's jarring to have a screed shot down so thoroughly, but the product Kunstler is peddling has been thoroughly rejected by all sides of the political aisle, from the National Review to the Center for American Progress. Unless you know, the Center for American Progress is now a right-wing propaganda outlet.

[Sbane]

Yeah, but even Los Angeles saw strong job growth last year. The problem is that the housing bubble was the worst in California causing its economy to recover slowly. The slowest recovery has been in the central valley and far flung areas of the IE which are just uneconomical to live in. Houses were being built there for god knows what reason. Those jobs are gone and we shouldn't expect them to come back. In addition there has been large drops in the value of homes in California, much more than the rest of the country. This causes people to feel poor and constrain spending, which hurts the local economy even further. I know you probably have an ideological axe to grind, and I agree the high cost of living discourages growth, but these larger forces are much more important to consider.

House prices didn't really collapse in the Bay or near LA itself. It was places like the Inland Empire that got wiped out. Because the rate of housing construction vastly outpaced the number of jobs that were being created in these areas, thus houses were worth a less than people though. Well, that and California's refusal to levy a property tax (and insistence on sky-high income and corporate taxes). A housing drop was precipitated by people who didn't realize how much so many employment-heavy, core industries have stagnated or shrunk. And the general business climate of California ensures that those industries aren't coming back. It's not realistic to blame these economic woes on a temporary housing crisis because the hollowing out of California's core industries has been a secular decline. It really comes back to the business climate. And it's hardly an ideological crusader, because there are actually many "blue states" with good business climates. Like Oregon and Washington. Though of course, the vast majority of states do lack the natural, non-government, advantages that California has.

Home prices have dropped quite a bit in most of the Bay Area and the LA area. In SF itself, or some gentrifying neighborhoods in LA, prices may not have dropped much but in the vast majority of those metro areas prices have dropped a lot. This is excluding Riverside and San Bernardino Counties. Prices have dropped close to 40% in LA County and a little less in Orange County. The Bay Area as a whole probably 25%. This happened because things were way too overvalued. But still prices are way higher than most areas around the country, and will likely stay much higher than the rest of the country.

[opebo]

As usual, opebo is looking at the world through a broken mirror

I only said these people are unhappy - that is apparent to anyone.  And I don't especially blame suburbs for that.  Perhaps the converse.

[fezzyfestoon]

As usual, opebo is looking at the world through a broken mirror

I only said these people are unhappy - that is apparent to anyone.  And I don't especially blame suburbs for that.  Perhaps the converse.

Yeah, I don't know how that can be argued. Historic levels of depression, high stress jobs with long hours and decreasing pay, high divorce rates, massive social consumption expectations, long commutes, small properties with low quality housing, expensive schools, overmedication, and the list goes on and on. And yet we constantly convince ourselves how happy we are and how everything is dreamy and working out perfectly. Something's wrong when people are deeply unhappy with what they view as the dream. Either the dream is wrong or we're wrong. Either way, we need to figure something out.

[danny]

I watched the video and there is almost nothing I agree with. A lot of the time he spends on making subjective opinions about beauty and presenting them as fact. Some of the rest he presents "facts" he seems to make up (saying alternative energy can't replace what we currently use, which seems more wish than fact).

He also mentions how in cities mean you interact more with people on the street. I have lived in a city my whole life, and I have never had any desire to have a conversation with random people on the street. And the only people who start talking with me are people who want money, missionaries, and people asking for directions/time. If living in the suburbs means less of that, I would consider that a plus rather than a minus.

[opebo]

Yeah, I don't know how that can be argued. Historic levels of depression, high stress jobs with long hours and decreasing pay, high divorce rates, massive social consumption expectations, long commutes, small properties with low quality housing, expensive schools, overmedication, and the list goes on and on. And yet we constantly convince ourselves how happy we are and how everything is dreamy and working out perfectly. Something's wrong when people are deeply unhappy with what they view as the dream. Either the dream is wrong or we're wrong. Either way, we need to figure something out.

American Beauty really wasn't such a bad film at all - the root of the whole madness of american/suburban misery is sexual frustration.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

In the bay area, there seems to be a rather large correlation between pedestrians and a low foreclosure rate.