GER-Infratest dimap/ARD: Germany's 140 EV solidly in the Obama column

[Keystone Phil]

So you think it comes down exclusively to Obama as a person? Other Democrats would not be leading by similar margins simply because the Republican Party is far outside the European political mainstream?

His insane majority in Italy is because of his personality, yes. Other Democrats would lead, for sure, but not by as wide of a margin but that's not the point. The point is that his lead in Italy isn't based on handwringing. Try telling someone with a straight face that that isn't the reason why Obama is doing so well in Germany.

Yay, sources!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-american-relations-after-the-poll-next-president-will-demand-more-from-europe-a-533449.html

Obama would have only led Clinton by 6 in the Democratic primary. I don't exactly call that an overwhelming personality cult.

Well, first of all, your math is off. 43-39 = 4, not 6. Secondly, I wasn't calling it a personality cult; I said it was handwringing. Lastly, one of the commentators states that he, like "most Germans," is swinging between Obama and Hillary so this poll doesn't prove much. 

[Middle-aged Europe]

You know, maybe I'm just dumb, but I honestly don't understand what Keystone Phil is trying to say here. I even looked up the term "handwringing" in a dictionary, but it didn't help. Can someone help me comprehend what he's getting at??

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

So you think it comes down exclusively to Obama as a person? Other Democrats would not be leading by similar margins simply because the Republican Party is far outside the European political mainstream?

His insane majority in Italy is because of his personality, yes. Other Democrats would lead, for sure, but not by as wide of a margin but that's not the point. The point is that his lead in Italy isn't based on handwringing. Try telling someone with a straight face that that isn't the reason why Obama is doing so well in Germany.

Yay, sources!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-american-relations-after-the-poll-next-president-will-demand-more-from-europe-a-533449.html

Obama would have only led Clinton by 6 in the Democratic primary. I don't exactly call that an overwhelming personality cult.

Well, first of all, your math is off. 43-39 = 4, not 6.

Reading, not math.

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Doesn't that just reinforce the message of the poll?

You know, maybe I'm just dumb, but I honestly don't understand what Keystone Phil is trying to say here. I even looked up the term "handwringing" in a dictionary, but it didn't help. Can someone help me comprehend what he's getting at??

I think the point is that Germans are worried about a Romney win... Which would be a perfectly good reason to vote for Obama.

[Franzl]

You know, maybe I'm just dumb, but I honestly don't understand what Keystone Phil is trying to say here. I even looked up the term "handwringing" in a dictionary, but it didn't help. Can someone help me comprehend what he's getting at??

He's getting at supposed "guilt" as the reason for supporting the black man. Phil is convinced this dominates Germans' everyday lives in every way.

[Keystone Phil]

I think the point is that Germans are worried about a Romney win... Which would be a perfectly good reason to vote for Obama.

...no.

And you guys don't know what handwringing means? Come on. Knock it off.

You know, maybe I'm just dumb, but I honestly don't understand what Keystone Phil is trying to say here. I even looked up the term "handwringing" in a dictionary, but it didn't help. Can someone help me comprehend what he's getting at??

He's getting at supposed "guilt" as the reason for supporting the black man. Phil is convinced this dominates Germans' everyday lives in every way.

Maybe it doesn't dominate but you know as well as I do that it has its place.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

I think the point is that Germans are worried about a Romney win... Which would be a perfectly good reason to vote for Obama.

...no.

And you guys don't know what handwringing means? Come on. Knock it off.

I've seriously never heard that term before.

You know, maybe I'm just dumb, but I honestly don't understand what Keystone Phil is trying to say here. I even looked up the term "handwringing" in a dictionary, but it didn't help. Can someone help me comprehend what he's getting at??

He's getting at supposed "guilt" as the reason for supporting the black man. Phil is convinced this dominates Germans' everyday lives in every way.

Maybe it doesn't dominate but you know as well as I do that it has its place.

No.
No, it doesn't. I hate to use the "I live here" card, but I think I would have a better gauge on that than you.

[Keystone Phil]

I hate to use the "I live here" card, but I think I would have a better gauge on that than you.

Yeah. Hey, did you ever ask a racist if he or she is racist?

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

I hate to use the "I live here" card, but I think I would have a better gauge on that than you.

Yeah. Hey, did you ever ask a racist if he or she is racist?

...
That has nothing to do with it. I didn't go around asking people why they support Obama. From normal political conversations that never even mentioned the topic directly, I can say that -- shocker -- politically aware Germans support Obama because of his policies.

[Franzl]

You're never going to convince Phil of anything.

[Keystone Phil]

I hate to use the "I live here" card, but I think I would have a better gauge on that than you.

Yeah. Hey, did you ever ask a racist if he or she is racist?

...
That has nothing to do with it. I didn't go around asking people why they support Obama. From normal political conversations that never even mentioned the topic directly, I can say that -- shocker -- politically aware Germans support Obama because of his policies.

...and that has nothing to do with my point that you, as a German, have as much authority saying Germans aren't hand wringers as racists do when they say they aren't racist.

[Franzl]

I hate to use the "I live here" card, but I think I would have a better gauge on that than you.

Yeah. Hey, did you ever ask a racist if he or she is racist?

...
That has nothing to do with it. I didn't go around asking people why they support Obama. From normal political conversations that never even mentioned the topic directly, I can say that -- shocker -- politically aware Germans support Obama because of his policies.

...and that has nothing to do with my point that you, as a German, have as much authority saying Germans aren't hand wringers as racists do when they say they aren't racist.

Or an ignorant not accepting he's ignorant, in your case.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

I hate to use the "I live here" card, but I think I would have a better gauge on that than you.

Yeah. Hey, did you ever ask a racist if he or she is racist?

...
That has nothing to do with it. I didn't go around asking people why they support Obama. From normal political conversations that never even mentioned the topic directly, I can say that -- shocker -- politically aware Germans support Obama because of his policies.

...and that has nothing to do with my point that you, as a German, have as much authority saying Germans aren't hand wringers as racists do when they say they aren't racist.

Um, okay...?

"Italians are all mafiosos."
You can't deny it because you're Italian yourself.

[Tidus]

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Sorry, but this has nothing to do with the topic and the fact that nearly 90% of Germans would vote for Obama - neither has racism to do with it... (in fact 80-90% of the Germans are just boring white people, no blacks, no hispanics or whatever - maybe just 5% immigrants for Turkey or other countries).

It´s just that the political views of German conservatives (and a lot of other conservative parties in modern democracies) are much closer to the democrats than the republicans.

And again: These conservative, white german voters wouldn´t vote for Obama because of his personality over his political, moral und social views. German conservatives are supportive of gay rights (because gays in a permanent relationship do live christian and conservative values like loyalty), minimum wage and minimizing CO₂ emission for preventing climate change. But the CDU is a modern conservative party - unlike the republicans.

And I would add that in my opinion in a race between a random democrat and a random republican, Germans would also break with around 90% for the Democrats. But we will probably see if this is true in about 4 years when we will have a new race with new persons.

[ag]

Foreigners tend to give very whacky answers on political polls regarding other foreign countries. It's a very different experience, foreign politics and domestic politics. GOPers never do well in them, but Democrats tend to dominate expat communities, so I'm not particularly surprised. At least from what I've experienced, European immigrants in the USA seem to actually be somewhat more right-wing than the average American (or about where the average White American is).

Of course, I've seen this phenomenon not just in America. Americans in East Asian countries have a tendency of backing batsh**t insane parties out of lack of information/lack of understanding of the country.

Russian immigrants that still speak Russian(post 1992) used to be 70% Democratic(before Obama).

What is this claim based on? I doubt there's ever been a poll of that sort. Nor does it really fit w/ my own experience talking to those folks (1992, actually, happens to be the first US electionI was present in the US for).

[Keystone Phil]

I hate to use the "I live here" card, but I think I would have a better gauge on that than you.

Yeah. Hey, did you ever ask a racist if he or she is racist?

...
That has nothing to do with it. I didn't go around asking people why they support Obama. From normal political conversations that never even mentioned the topic directly, I can say that -- shocker -- politically aware Germans support Obama because of his policies.

...and that has nothing to do with my point that you, as a German, have as much authority saying Germans aren't hand wringers as racists do when they say they aren't racist.

Or an ignorant not accepting he's ignorant, in your case.

You know it all, Franzl. And, hey, you're a centrist! You're right down the middle! You get it.

[Franzl]

I hate to use the "I live here" card, but I think I would have a better gauge on that than you.

Yeah. Hey, did you ever ask a racist if he or she is racist?

...
That has nothing to do with it. I didn't go around asking people why they support Obama. From normal political conversations that never even mentioned the topic directly, I can say that -- shocker -- politically aware Germans support Obama because of his policies.

...and that has nothing to do with my point that you, as a German, have as much authority saying Germans aren't hand wringers as racists do when they say they aren't racist.

Or an ignorant not accepting he's ignorant, in your case.

You know it all, Franzl. And, hey, you're a centrist! You're right down the middle! You get it.

Do you really want to accuse someone else of "knowing it all", Phil?

[Keystone Phil]

Do you really want to accuse someone else of "knowing it all", Phil?

"Combative," sure. I view it more as "vocally principled." But a know it all? No.

[timothyinMD]

File this under "who give a damn".   Europe is a destroyed continent.  Why do we care a damn what they think

[Tidus]

File this under "who give a damn".   Europe is a destroyed continent.  Why do we care a damn what they think

In fact Europe is still the richest continent in the world.

And the problems there are at least partly due to the US made finacial meltdown (thanks Mr. W. Bush)...

But Europe is not that homogeneous - and we are talking here just about Germany... and Germany nowadays is in a very good shape.

[Franzl]

File this under "who give a damn".   Europe is a destroyed continent.  Why do we care a damn what they think

Is FOX your primary "news" source?

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

File this under "who give a damn".   Europe is a destroyed continent.  Why do we care a damn what they think

...and sentiments like this are a large part of why the result is as it is.