The Orgin of Human Life Poll, split by nationality

[DC Al Fine]

Either way I sound like a moron and you sound like a fundie. No wonder Mikado left the atheism "faith".

Let's put it another way. Is the truth 'fundamentalist'? Should evolutionary science, genetics, biology, geology, archaeology, history and IIRC about 100-200 branches of science that support evolution and the age of the earth be thrown under a bus to satisfysome Christians who choose not to engage their brain when trying to reconcile our understanding of the world with their faith?

Whether or not they believe in evolution isn't the same as this. There are Christians that engage their brain a certain way and believe they can reconcile it by questioning the science behind evolution. There are others who just say "because the Bible told me so."  There are Christians that try to understand how their faith can make room for evolution. And then there are others who believe in evolution and don't think deeply about how to reconcile it with their faith. And still others who don't know if evolution is true and don't care.

That's essentially what I said. There are Christians who can reconcile every new understanding of the world with their faith and there are those who try to think around the issues because they choose not to. Therefore we have a number of Christians who invent their own 'science' - evolution isn't real, global warming isn't real, gays can 'change', women aren't 'legitimately raped', studies say this, studies say that. This extends into the social sciences too resulting in the contorting of history and archaeology to suit their means.

Essentially if there is a god and human beings reveal more and more about the world, then these Christians are collectively saying 'f-ck you' to their own gods creation.

I thought you said though they are not engaging their brains. By "thinking around the issues", they are engaging their brains.  If may be nonsense, but it requires a great deal of creativity.

Are you saying that global warming skepticism is an extension of Christian fundamentalism?  I think any correlation there has to do with the effects of political coalitions.

[DC Al Fine]

Blonde Artist, if there is no God, our current model fails because it implies matter and energy created themselves ex nihlio.

[DC Al Fine]

Blonde Artist, if there is no God, our current model fails because it implies matter and energy created themselves ex nihlio.

     Not really, since atheism makes no claim about how they were created and there is no reason to suppose that creation by nothing and creation by God are the only two options.

Sure, I merely suggest that "God is the creator of the universe" is both respectable and plausible.

[DC Al Fine]

Gravitational potential energy still requires matter. Your answer does not address the old Leibniz question: Why is there something rather than nothing?

[DC Al Fine]

Gravitational potential energy still requires matter. Your answer does not address the old Leibniz question: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Let's say we don't know the answer to that question - in what way does that make "God did it" an acceptable answer? Do you have any evidence for this claim? Do you even have evidence to suggest that this God thing exists in the first place? To the point, how is that answer fundamentally any different than "a wizard did it" or "Puff the Magic Dragon did it"?

I'm going to quote from William Lane Craig, since he can put this more eloquently than I can.

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[DC Al Fine]

@afleitch

You misunderstand the word cause. Craig simply means cause in the sense that one thing makes another thing happen. Lightning starts a forest fire. There is no intelligent decision to start a fire, but lightning is the cause nonetheless.

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From the Oxford English Dictionary: Transcend:be or go beyond the range or limits of.
Existing outside of space and time, is by definition transcending space and time.

As for the mind argument, I'd suggest that enough people have "experienced God" to suggest that the cause of the universe is some sort of mind and therefore minds can be immaterial. Of course that is getting way off topic, so we might want to start another thread on that one.