SENATE BILL: Getting Real About the Cabinet Amendment (Failed)
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  SENATE BILL: Getting Real About the Cabinet Amendment (Failed)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Getting Real About the Cabinet Amendment (Failed)  (Read 1964 times)
Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2012, 02:44:13 AM »

Keep in mind, this itself doesn't actually abolish the position, it merely gives the Senate the power to do so through statute. (So basically please vote aye. Tongue)

Aye.
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2012, 11:41:17 AM »

Nay
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Franzl
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« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2012, 12:01:45 PM »

Aye
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Sbane
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« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2012, 05:26:18 PM »

Nay
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Redalgo
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« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2012, 05:33:00 PM »

Nay
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2012, 01:18:25 AM »

We just passed the Equal Rights Amendment and abolished the death penalty. I think if there is consensus enough to pass those so relatively easily and by such margins, that it shouldn't be that difficult to get an amendment through abolishing a cabinet position down the road. If the SoEA and the other positions were are in the Constitution as well, thne obviously there was a desire to place the cabinet in that document and obviously, since Marokai BLue was intimately involved in the crafting of this Constitution, then clearly he must have thought there was a solid reason to elevate the cabinet like that at the time. So, if you are going to remove one just on the basis of "empowering the Senate", why not remove the others?

We are altering the Constitution to make a change to something easier to accomplish, at the same time that very same person has pushed hard to sabotage  that something, by trying to block pending reforms, clearly demonstrating a firm opposition that won't be change, to that very something. In fact it looks remarkably similar to a previous occassion when a certain Senator, joined in an effort to try and reduce the ratification requirements for Constitutional amendments, conveniently, just before an attempt to abolish Regional Senate seats was coming down the pike in the Senate and was very controversial. Just saying! Tongue

There is problem with the Department of Internal Affairs. Guess what, there is problem with the Department of External Affairs as well. There have been problems with the Game Moderator. In 2009, when I worked with Senator Purple State to reform that position, there were people saying just screw it, get rid of it. We have passed reforms since then as well and the position is much better than it was.

One of the major hindrences to all these positions has been lack of activity, the lack of expectations of activity and the lack of oversight. The fact that no one has demanded, "okay why haven't you done jack sh**t since last month, or in some instances, since taking office?" We have groups of people who think the fact that this is a game, gives them a license to screw off, they treat this place a place to screw around with each other and with other people. Usually they get a free pass because they were here from days of yore and the only accountability brought to bare was on those who dared question them or demand certain expectations from them. Another group is a group of people who thought they were up for it, but the finals were a bitch, or the new job is taking all of their time. I understand that, I am not blaming them for that. But if it gets to a point where they can't function at all, there should be an expectation that someone would demand a change and thus they would be compelled to resign, "for the good of the game", or be fired. That hasn't existed, we are afraid they might take it too personally, or "They weren't standing up for a fellow (insert Party), or that a friend might be lost. There is a small number of people in this game and close friendships (and sometimes even more then that) have formed. Just because this is a game doesn't mean that there isn't responsiblity. You can't fall asleep in the middle of a poker game, and expect the game to continue. Either the game ends or you are dealt out. If they are trully friends, then they should understand your position if you are charged with deciding whether to fire them. If the culture of the game encourages that approach to be taken, it makes it less difficult, because the understanding is clear going in. If appointed my friend Duke to something some day and he failed, I would respectfully ask that he resign, and I would hope that he would do the same to me in the reversed roles. If is just a game, then it shouldn't be that important in terms of a friendship, if is more, then clearly it has even more responsibility to be active and thus it shouldn't be a problem anyway.

The committees present the possibility that the kind of constant oversight be an on going process for all these positions. Inactivity will then become an issue for an office holder within the first few days of an absence, rather than taking a whole month. We need to get all these people coordinating and collabortating with each other, because without them we loose functionality. We are at our best when they work together to create a dynamic economic, geo-political and current events engine that the politics can then react to. The problems with the DoIA aren't specific to that position, and just killing it isn't going to fix the problem, it is just dealing removing a symptom. It is like choppin of an arm that has the manifestation of an systemtic, body-wide infection.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2012, 01:23:27 AM »

We just passed the Equal Rights Amendment and abolished the death penalty. I think if there is consensus enough to pass those so relatively easily and by such margins, that it shouldn't be that difficult to get an amendment through abolishing a cabinet position down the road.

Not to TL;DR your post (actually, you make a lot of good points), but come on, those passed because they were good policies, not because its easy to pass an amendment to the Constitution. Grin
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2012, 01:46:01 AM »

We just passed the Equal Rights Amendment and abolished the death penalty. I think if there is consensus enough to pass those so relatively easily and by such margins, that it shouldn't be that difficult to get an amendment through abolishing a cabinet position down the road.

Not to TL;DR your post (actually, you make a lot of good points), but come on, those passed because they were good policies, not because its easy to pass an amendment to the Constitution. Grin


I am not saying it is or should be easy, but if arguments can be made that could lead ot the ERA passing every region, I am sure that such arguments could be carried about the functionality of an office, with less trouble doing so. If people come to the conlusion it is good to abolish the SoIA, then it shouldn't be difficult to get the same result. If Marokai wants to remove one cabinet member from the Purple State/Marokai Blue Constitution, then we should expect either all of them to be removed, or a convincing argument for special treatment that isn't based on his somewhat feeble justifications for abolishing the office.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2012, 05:00:02 PM »

Aye
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #59 on: October 06, 2012, 12:13:44 AM »

I count 3 Ayes, 5 Nays, with Bacon King and NV Townsend not voting. Since this is a 2/3rds vote on an Amendment, this has enough votes to fail. Senators have 24 hours to change their votes.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2012, 12:29:19 AM »

Sad
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2012, 12:53:13 AM »

Final vote on passage of the Getting Real About the Cabinet Amendment:

Aye (3): Franzl, HagridoftheDeep, Marokai Blue
NAy (5): Ben, NC Yankee, Redalgo, sbane, and Scott
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (2): Bacon King and NVTownsend

This has failed.


Don't know why I missed this yesterday or the day before.
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