National Sales Tax??

[??????????]

Would you scrap the current IRS and Tax codes? What is everyones opinion?

[dunn]

no way

[??????????]

Why not?

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Probably because this is one of the failed ideas that Newt Gingrich and the 104th Congress pushed that was so bad it didn't even pass.

And they claim to be the party of lower taxes. Yeah. Whatever.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I would very much support a national sales tax if it were revenue neutral.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

I would very much support a national sales tax if it was revenue neutral.

In other words, you'd support it just for the sake of punishing the poor.

Hmm, did Newt Gingrich move to Texas and get an account on this board?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I would very much support a national sales tax if it was revenue neutral.

In other words, you'd support it just for the sake of punishing the poor.

Hmm, did Newt Gingrich move to Texas and get an account on this board?

I thought the media had convinced everyone that the rich don't pay any taxes; therefore, wouldn't a sales tax force the rich to pay taxes?

[Nation]

If you want a national sales tax, vote for Gary Nolan.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

If you want a national sales tax, vote for Gary Nolan.

Never heard of him

[Kghadial]

National sales tax would be inherently unfair. For it to be anywhere close to replacing the income tax it would have to be close to 20%.

The poor spend all their money. Lets say we have a poor guy who makes only $10000 a year. He spends all his money and thus pays

20% of $10000 = $2000

in tax.

Say we have a rich guy. He makes $400,000 a year .  He very likey saves a lot of his money, and since the sales tax is so oppresively high he often goes to foreign countries to spend his money. Lets say he only spends $200,000 in the US

20% of $200,000 =  $40,000

Poor guy pays 20% of his income, rich guy only pays ten percent. Its entirely and utterly unfair.

Not to mention the current old. They saved their post-income tax earnings for retirement, and now you are asking them to pay a substatial chuck of tax on whats left.

Its one thing for the rich to say that they pay too much tax, its another for them to pay half as much (percentage-wise, which is the only -wise that matters) or less than the very poor.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Unfortunately the Contract With America types don't care. They'll support it just because people get hurt by it.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

National sales tax would be inherently unfair...

OK, how about a flat income tax so that everyone pays the same percentage?

 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Flat Tax=Economic and Social Collapse

[Nation]

If you want a national sales tax, vote for Gary Nolan.

Never heard of him

Libertarian candidate.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

The Libertarians might as well merge with the Republicans then. For them to support a national sales tax defeats the whole purpose of the party.

[Nym90]

A 20% sales tax with no income tax would be devastating to the economy. You'd be greatly increasing the incentive of people to save their money, and greatly reducing their incentive to spend it. Gee, that sounds like a GREAT way to get the economy moving...

Not to mention, as has been stated by others, it would hurt the poor disproportionately, since they spend a far greater share of their income than the wealthy do. The disincentive to spend wouldn't cause them not to, since they'd still have to spend their money in order to survive. But rich people would spend a whole lot less money (at least in this country).
 
Even throwing aside the rich vs. poor argument though, it's clearly bad economics to reduce the incentive to spend.

We should do the exact opposite, in my opinion. Completely eliminate all sales taxes, and raise the income tax by whatever amount would be necessary to compensate for it. That would greatly improve the economy, as all prices would be immediately slahsed by 6% (or whatever the rate is in your state...Michigan is 6%, and I think that's fairly average).

In fact, I actually support eliminating ALL other taxes and government user fees of any type (except for those in situations where even with the user fee in place, demand still continues to be much greater than supply, in which case the fee is a way of reducing demand which would otherwise be way too high to accomodate everyone. As an example, there should be parking meters in Manhattan, otherwise no one would ever get a parking spot there.), and replacing them with an increase in the income tax sufficient to make up for the difference in lost revenue.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

National sales tax would be inherently unfair. For it to be anywhere close to replacing the income tax it would have to be close to 20%.

The poor spend all their money. Lets say we have a poor guy who makes only $10000 a year. He spends all his money and thus pays

20% of $10000 = $2000

in tax.

Say we have a rich guy. He makes $400,000 a year .  He very likey saves a lot of his money, and since the sales tax is so oppresively high he often goes to foreign countries to spend his money. Lets say he only spends $200,000 in the US

20% of $200,000 =  $40,000

Poor guy pays 20% of his income, rich guy only pays ten percent. Its entirely and utterly unfair.

Not to mention the current old. They saved their post-income tax earnings for retirement, and now you are asking them to pay a substatial chuck of tax on whats left.

Its one thing for the rich to say that they pay too much tax, its another for them to pay half as much (percentage-wise, which is the only -wise that matters) or less than the very poor.

Great post, but I can't believe I agree with a Democrat on taxes.

Well, it's not like this is a controvercial issue.  I think we can all find common ground, and replacing income tax with a national sales tax would be an exceedingly *bad* idea.

We could also all probably agree that printing off extra currency to pay off the national debt would be a bad idea.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

Does anyone know where I can find data on current income tax brackets, and what percentage of the federal budget is payed for by each bracket?

[zachman]

A national sales tax would solve a lot of the budget problem. It would danger states' budgets though. I voted for it in the poll.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

$311K & Up       35%
$143K-$311K     33%
$68K-$143K       28%
$28K-68K           25%
$7K-$28K           15%
$0K-$7K             10%

The lowest tax bracket used to get a refund.

Too bad Newt took that away (while at the same time he supported a huge congressional pay raise).

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

$311K & Up       35%
$143K-$311K     33%
$68K-$143K       28%
$28K-68K           25%
$7K-$28K           15%
$0K-$7K             10%

The lowest tax bracket used to get a refund.

Too bad Newt took that away (while at the same time he supported a huge congressional pay raise).

There's no reason why anyone living near, at, or below the poverty line should have to pay income tax.  At all.  I want to find out what percentage of our federal budget is paid for by the 10% and 15% brackets.  It can't be all that much.

[??????????]

The current tax system is unconstitutional. Plain and simple. IMHO you would not need a 20% tax to pay for everything. If you kept corporate income tax, which is constitutional, all that money you are normally taxed would  be back in your pocket and if you had a national sales tax that money you are getting back would be more then enough to pay a small 5-6% tax.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

$311K & Up       35%
$143K-$311K     33%
$68K-$143K       28%
$28K-68K           25%
$7K-$28K           15%
$0K-$7K             10%

The lowest tax bracket used to get a refund.

Too bad Newt took that away (while at the same time he supported a huge congressional pay raise).

There's no reason why anyone living near, at, or below the poverty line should have to pay income tax.  At all.  I want to find out what percentage of our federal budget is paid for by the 10% and 15% brackets.  It can't be all that much.

These income brackets are TAXABLE INCOME only...i.e. AFTER deductions.  A $30k gross salary can easily be reduced to only $5k taxable income after deductions.

[??????????]

Tell me which deductions !!! lol

[Kghadial]

The current tax system is unconstitutional. Plain and simple. IMHO you would not need a 20% tax to pay for everything. If you kept corporate income tax, which is constitutional, all that money you are normally taxed would  be back in your pocket and if you had a national sales tax that money you are getting back would be more then enough to pay a small 5-6% tax.

How much government spending would you slash???

If we say all personal consumption would end up sales taxed, that is 7.5 trillion (roughly) in a year, then add the roughly .85 trill of business investment in equipment in software to the taxed pile . That means we have   8.3 trillion that can be taxed of spending that would be subject to sales tax (this is very rough, and the amount is much less) , a 10% tax would replace the roulghly .83 trillion of personal income tax collections expected this year.  

Considering that with only  830 bill of personal income tax reciepts we are currently in the hole by half a tril a year.  

Unless we slash the hell out of spending, on the order of a trillion a year, a national sales tax would have to be in the double digits. 10% is very likely to not be anywhere close. Closer to 14% at the minimum once you work out all the thing that wouldn't be subject to it and the like, considering that i greatly simplified the calculations.  

Then 14% + 6% that most states have, would be the 20% that i had predicted earlier.

Probably even a greater tax since such a high tax would greatly discourage the poor from spending, and greatly encourage the rich to spend abroad.