Protesters attack US diplomatic compounds in Egypt, Libya

[J. J.]

A lot of things are being conflated out there. The two incidents were very different. In Egypt there seems to be the proverbial angry mob of Islamists (and not a big one compared to other protests seen in Egypt), and before that mob did anything some social media guy inside the embassy sent out a somewhat lame tweet and statement. Then the mob scaled the walls and tore down the flag, which was then condemned by the embassy. And the local security forces didn't do much to stop. It was a total screwup by everyone, but in the end no one was hurt.

Romney released his remarks after the official embassy comment, but before the protest in Libya.  I agree with his comment, and apparently so does the White House, who put a comment stating that this was not the US position.

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Go back and look at the prior comment, though I think a distinction should be drawn between the attackers, the Libyan government and the Libyan people.  The latter two do not appear to support it.

[Link]

A lot of things are being conflated out there. The two incidents were very different. In Egypt there seems to be the proverbial angry mob of Islamists (and not a big one compared to other protests seen in Egypt), and before that mob did anything some social media guy inside the embassy sent out a somewhat lame tweet and statement. Then the mob scaled the walls and tore down the flag, which was then condemned by the embassy. And the local security forces didn't do much to stop. It was a total screwup by everyone, but in the end no one was hurt.

Romney released his remarks after the official embassy comment, but before the protest in Libya.  I agree with his comment, and apparently so does the White House, who put a comment stating that this was not the US position.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Go back and look at the prior comment, though I think a distinction should be drawn between the attackers, the Libyan government and the Libyan people.  The latter two do not appear to support it.

Give it a rest J.J.  Some guy who was obviously raised in a different environment than you was on the ground in Egypt as things were brewing.  Without coordinating with anyone they stated the obvious that the film was disgusting and did not represent American values.  The person did not coordinate with the State Department let alone call Obama up on his Blackberry.  The RPG sqad that showed up in Libya was not sitting at home playing Madden '12 and only got the balls to do what they did because some nameless guy in an American embassy in some other country condemned the film.  If this is all you guys have you are going to lose.  Even by your standards this is pathetic.

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Link.

[Likely Voter]

Romney released his remarks after the official embassy comment, but before the protest in Libya. 

Wow...really? Here is his statement...

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I had no idea that Mitt Romney could predict future events. That's it. I'm voting Romney!

[Free Palestine]

Yes, because a crowd of crazies obviously constitutes the feelings of the entire country and invalidate that country's successful attempt to topple a tyrannical madman.

[J. J.]

Romney released his remarks after the official embassy comment, but before the protest in Libya. 

Wow...really? Here is his statement...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I had no idea that Mitt Romney could predict future events. That's it. I'm voting Romney!

His first remark (and Obama's backing away from it) related to the comment made by some idote at the Embassy.

Here:

Romney’s remarks came before the White House confirmed Wednesday morning that U.S. ambassador to Libya, John Christopher Stevens, was among those killed in the Benghazi attack.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/09/12/romney-calls-obama-response-to-libya-attacks-disgraceful/?print=11

The same citation indicates that it was the Embassy in Egypt acting acting on his own.

an administration official later told ABC News  that “no one in Washington approved that statement before it was released and it doesn’t reflect the views of the U.S. government.” The statement still appears on the embassy website, but not on the homepage.

Absolutely, I think Romney was right to criticize it. 

[J. J.]

A lot of things are being conflated out there. The two incidents were very different. In Egypt there seems to be the proverbial angry mob of Islamists (and not a big one compared to other protests seen in Egypt), and before that mob did anything some social media guy inside the embassy sent out a somewhat lame tweet and statement. Then the mob scaled the walls and tore down the flag, which was then condemned by the embassy. And the local security forces didn't do much to stop. It was a total screwup by everyone, but in the end no one was hurt.

Romney released his remarks after the official embassy comment, but before the protest in Libya.  I agree with his comment, and apparently so does the White House, who put a comment stating that this was not the US position.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Go back and look at the prior comment, though I think a distinction should be drawn between the attackers, the Libyan government and the Libyan people.  The latter two do not appear to support it.

Give it a rest J.J.  Some guy who was obviously raised in a different environment than you was on the ground in Egypt as things were brewing.  Without coordinating with anyone they stated the obvious that the film was disgusting and did not represent American values.  The person did not coordinate with the State Department let alone call Obama up on his Blackberry.  The RPG sqad that showed up in Libya was not sitting at home playing Madden '12 and only got the balls to do what they did because some nameless guy in an American embassy in some other country condemned the film.  If this is all you guys have you are going to lose.  Even by your standards this is pathetic.

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Link.

Link, do you honestly think that:

1.  An Embassy should be issuing statements about something that happened in the US, without checking with the State Department?

2.  That anybody thinking there was "trouble brewing" would be quelled because the potential protestors were going to whip out their laptops and check the Embassy website?

[Simfan34]

God Bless the Internet! Am I the only one that's shocked this sort of thing could happen in this day and age? Ambassadors being carted out of their offices and murdered? I mean, also, I feel like this isn't being as made as a big deal as it should be, this is well, really, really shocking. I'm mildly upset at the Times for not having a "sh**t just got real" headline along these lines:

[they don't love you like i love you]

The important questions here are:

1) Where were Egyptian and Libyan security forces?

2) What action will be taken by the Libyan government to find the murderers of the US Ambassador?

1) Most reports say that the Libyan security forces tried to protect the embassy/consulate, but were unsuccessful in stopping the rioters.

2) The Libyan government isn't in the pay of these thugs, so they'll probably go to great lengths to find the killers.

Here's proof. From some of the same people Romney attacked by the way:

[Јas]

US embassy stormed in Yemen

[Middle-aged Europe]

The important questions here are:

1) Where were Egyptian and Libyan security forces?

2) What action will be taken by the Libyan government to find the murderers of the US Ambassador?

1) Most reports say that the Libyan security forces tried to protect the embassy/consulate, but were unsuccessful in stopping the rioters.

2) The Libyan government isn't in the pay of these thugs, so they'll probably go to great lengths to find the killers.

Here's proof. From some of the same people Romney attacked by the way:

The Islamists are probably going to accuse them of appeasement or something.

[opebo]

God Bless the Internet! Am I the only one that's shocked this sort of thing could happen in this day and age? Ambassadors being carted out of their offices and murdered?

My understanding is that the ambassador was not 'carted out of his office and then murdered', nor did he come into direct contact with the Islamists, but rather that he died of smoke inhalation from fires caused by their rocket attacks. 

This doesn't make that much difference, but if correct, it suggests that the attackers did not control the compound with impunity.  Does anyone know the precise details of the attack?

[Mr. Morden]

Am I alone in finding it creepy that the Pentagon is in the business of trying to dissuade people from saying offensive things, no matter how idiotic those offensive things might be?:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/09/12/obama-dempsey-jones/70000214/1#.UFHryUJvsUU

[anvi]

The Pentagon is concerned about the safety of the people on the ground carrying out American diplomatic missions.  It's not like the Pentagon can stop people from talking, but I think it's perfectly ok for them to ask, since, as the last few days have made clear, this stuff can cause uproars against American government workers in other countries that turn deadly.

[Torie]

What is the case again for having any embassies at all in these troubled Arab hotspots?  In the internet age, just why do you need high profile bricks and mortar in "bad places?" 

I am asking this as a serious question. Thanks.

[Silent Hunter]

The Pentagon is concerned about the safety of the people on the ground carrying out American diplomatic missions.  It's not like the Pentagon can stop people from talking, but I think it's perfectly ok for them to ask, since, as the last few days have made clear, this stuff can cause uproars against American government workers in other countries that turn deadly.

I agree. It's their right to ask this, as its the diplomats and the military guards who will be victims of this.

[Silent Hunter]

What is the case again for having any embassies at all in these troubled Arab hotspots?  In the internet age, just why do you need high profile bricks and mortar in "bad places?" 

I am asking this as a serious question. Thanks.

Not everyone has the internet - in 2010, only 5.5% of Libyans did.

[Torie]

What is the case again for having any embassies at all in these troubled Arab hotspots?  In the internet age, just why do you need high profile bricks and mortar in "bad places?" 

I am asking this as a serious question. Thanks.

What, do you suppose, is the purpose of an embassy anywhere?

These days, that cannot be done remotely?  Interesting question.

[anvi]

I don't believe it can be done remotely...at all.  Having people on site, who can establish personal relationships with both a country's leadership and the local population, as well as maintain close connections to the things that are happening daily in a country, really can't be done across an ocean through cyberspace.  I mean, that Atlas forum, for instance, is a very cool place to come and talk with people and all, but I don't think it could do anything like carry out a genuinely diplomatic mission.  Having people on site always involves real risks, which is precisely why caution in what is said and what is done is always advisable.     

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Torie might like skype but it's not going to work on the diplomatic level.

[Link]

A lot of things are being conflated out there. The two incidents were very different. In Egypt there seems to be the proverbial angry mob of Islamists (and not a big one compared to other protests seen in Egypt), and before that mob did anything some social media guy inside the embassy sent out a somewhat lame tweet and statement. Then the mob scaled the walls and tore down the flag, which was then condemned by the embassy. And the local security forces didn't do much to stop. It was a total screwup by everyone, but in the end no one was hurt.

Romney released his remarks after the official embassy comment, but before the protest in Libya.  I agree with his comment, and apparently so does the White House, who put a comment stating that this was not the US position.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Go back and look at the prior comment, though I think a distinction should be drawn between the attackers, the Libyan government and the Libyan people.  The latter two do not appear to support it.

Give it a rest J.J.  Some guy who was obviously raised in a different environment than you was on the ground in Egypt as things were brewing.  Without coordinating with anyone they stated the obvious that the film was disgusting and did not represent American values.  The person did not coordinate with the State Department let alone call Obama up on his Blackberry. The RPG squad that showed up in Libya was not sitting at home playing Madden '12 and only got the balls to do what they did because some nameless guy in an American embassy in some other country condemned the film.  If this is all you guys have you are going to lose.  Even by your standards this is pathetic.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Link.

Link, do you honestly think that...

J.J., the thesis that you and that screwball Romney have put forth is insane.  Seriously, our diplomat is dead.  Give the stupid politics a rest.

[J. J.]

J.J., the thesis that you and that screwball Romney have put forth is insane.  Seriously, our diplomat is dead.  Give the stupid politics a rest.

Link, we said, rightly, IMO, how a number of people in the US disagree with the film.  We didn't take a hard stand against doing thinks like, oh, attacking our embassies.  The embassy in Yemen was them attacked.  Yes, Link, you might as well give it a rest, because the world has passed you by.

[Link]

J.J., the thesis that you and that screwball Romney have put forth is insane.  Seriously, our diplomat is dead.  Give the stupid politics a rest.

Link, we said, rightly, IMO, how a number of people in the US disagree with the film.  We didn't take a hard stand against doing thinks like, oh, attacking our embassies.  The embassy in Yemen was them attacked.  Yes, Link, you might as well give it a rest, because the world has passed you by.

Your posts makes even less sense than usual.

[J. J.]

J.J., the thesis that you and that screwball Romney have put forth is insane.  Seriously, our diplomat is dead.  Give the stupid politics a rest.

Link, we said, rightly, IMO, how a number of people in the US disagree with the film.  We didn't take a hard stand against doing thinks like, oh, attacking our embassies.  The embassy in Yemen was them attacked.  Yes, Link, you might as well give it a rest, because the world has passed you by.

Your posts makes even less sense than usual.

Most people understand that we, the US, should be complaining about the attacks, first and foremost.  I'm sorry if you are not able of understanding that.

[Link]

J.J., the thesis that you and that screwball Romney have put forth is insane.  Seriously, our diplomat is dead.  Give the stupid politics a rest.

Link, we said, rightly, IMO, how a number of people in the US disagree with the film.  We didn't take a hard stand against doing thinks like, oh, attacking our embassies.  The embassy in Yemen was them attacked.  Yes, Link, you might as well give it a rest, because the world has passed you by.

Your posts makes even less sense than usual.

Most people understand that we, the US, should be complaining about the attacks, first and foremost.  I'm sorry if you are not able of understanding that.

Your childish strawman aside Romney came out with a statement criticizing a message that was released by an unnamed embassy worker BEFORE the attacks.  Whatever revisionism you are attempting isn't going to work.  While the State Department and the president were trying to ascertain exactly what happened Romney was mass emailing people on 9/11 trying to score political points off the death of Americans.  The guy royally screwed up his chronology and some of the right wing robots went over the cliff with him.  End of story.

[they don't love you like i love you]

I've said before that arguing with J. J. is like deciding you don't like the color of your house but instead of having it painted you go outside and start yelling at your house to change its color. In each circumstance who is being "communicated" with is about as equally likely to understand the facts, and there's also an equal chance of anything productive coming as a result.