Will the Libya Crisis Help Obama or Romney?

[opebo]

It hurts Obama. The longer it drags out the worse it is for the President.

What data do you have to claim this?

Its just common sense, Marokai.

[AmericanNation]

3 embassies in 2 days, an ambassador dead, and on the aniversery of 9-11 to boot is a pretty big deal and won't be "forgotten" anywhere near as much as "I will transmit this to Vladimir" which isn't forgotten it just isn't focused on.  

Given how half the country saw this coming makes it a major problem for Obama's foreign policy credibility.  BO handled his response(s) so poorly many people were physically ill / boiling at the situation.  3 major acts of war against the United States and Obama says "It's a bad day, hey I'm off to campaign in Vegas!"

The Romney situation is weird because the media went kamikaze on him for no apparent reason other than hackery.  Everything Romney said was true and well timed.  Frankly he needed to be President on 9-11 and 4 Americans might well be alive.  Not to mention American prestige would be much better.              

Everyone, this guy ^^ talks about people living in a bubble.

Seriously.

I don't know man after reading this and Politico's post about Romney's masculine 6'2 frame, I'm now convinced that Romney would have caught those bullets and RPG's with his teeth  He then would have created 10 American jobs in the auto industry using all that steel.


RIP to the victims and thanks for their service to this country.

...make that 4 embassies in 3 days, thanks for creating this problem and not listening when we shouted that this would happen.  It's another "bad day" let's go campaign in Ohio or something.   

[Badger]

I doubt there will be any major effect.

^^^^ this. At least by Election Day.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

3 embassies in 2 days, an ambassador dead, and on the aniversery of 9-11 to boot is a pretty big deal and won't be "forgotten" anywhere near as much as "I will transmit this to Vladimir" which isn't forgotten it just isn't focused on.   

Given how half the country saw this coming makes it a major problem for Obama's foreign policy credibility.  BO handled his response(s) so poorly many people were physically ill / boiling at the situation.  3 major acts of war against the United States and Obama says "It's a bad day, hey I'm off to campaign in Vegas!"

The Romney situation is weird because the media went kamikaze on him for no apparent reason other than hackery.  Everything Romney said was true and well timed.  Frankly he needed to be President on 9-11 and 4 Americans might well be alive.  Not to mention American prestige would be much better.             

Everyone, this guy ^^ talks about people living in a bubble.

Seriously.

I don't know man after reading this and Politico's post about Romney's masculine 6'2 frame, I'm now convinced that Romney would have caught those bullets and RPG's with his teeth  He then would have created 10 American jobs in the auto industry using all that steel.


RIP to the victims and thanks for their service to this country.

...make that 4 embassies in 3 days, thanks for creating this problem

Yes, patrick1, how dare you?!

and not listening when we shouted that this would happen. 

Who shouted about this, exactly? The voices in your head?

It's another "bad day" let's go campaign in Ohio or something.   

As opposed to, y'know, Romney's disgusting response?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The main effect is it took Romney off message for several days, and he can't afford that right now.  Now if the violent protests continue to fester for several weeks, then maybe it'll hurt Obama some, but that seems unlikely.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Romney's response makes me feel a lot less likely to vote for him right now  - but who knows where our attention will be in the next two months.

[J. J.]

Libya alone might be a small plus for Obama.  The rest of the Mideast creates a bigger minus for Obama

[Politico]

Nobody wants to see images of the flag being burnt without a strong response that puts an end to such displays. It is becoming increasingly clear that this is developing into a negative for Obama, whose substantive strong suit a week ago was foreign policy. Now he only has the "likeable" factor going for him. Before it became beyond obvious that he was not leading Rome in a proper way, people liked Nero...

Nice guys who don't get the job done still get fired. Go ask Jimmy Carter.

[BlueSwan]

I think that this, despite Romneys early fumble, if prolonged in any way, hurts Obama and helps Romney.

Now hear me out!

We've had loads of experience with stuff like this - not completely similarly, but similarly enough - in Europe. In Denmark we had the infamous Mohammed drawings, for instance, which was met with an outroar in certain parts of the arab world.

In Europe, what we have learned is basically that any type of event that can give rise to anti-islamic sentiment of any sort will always help the right wing. Always. It doesn't matter if the right wing are acting batsh**t crazy or making completely unreasonable arguments and generalizations.

If the Republicans can make the case that Obama is "weak on muslims" (or even a muslim himself, which loads of americans apparently believe), then I'm afraid this is a winning cause for them.

However, if it ends now, it probably helps Obama due to a rallying around the flag and Romneys fumble. But it does need to end now. Which I don't think it will. These protests tend to take a while to die down.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

As many as 10 Libyans died trying to defend the embassy in the attack, and the Libyan people have this to say.

[AmericanNation]

3 embassies in 2 days, an ambassador dead, and on the aniversery of 9-11 to boot is a pretty big deal and won't be "forgotten" anywhere near as much as "I will transmit this to Vladimir" which isn't forgotten it just isn't focused on.   

Given how half the country saw this coming makes it a major problem for Obama's foreign policy credibility.  BO handled his response(s) so poorly many people were physically ill / boiling at the situation.  3 major acts of war against the United States and Obama says "It's a bad day, hey I'm off to campaign in Vegas!"

The Romney situation is weird because the media went kamikaze on him for no apparent reason other than hackery.  Everything Romney said was true and well timed.  Frankly he needed to be President on 9-11 and 4 Americans might well be alive.  Not to mention American prestige would be much better.             

Everyone, this guy ^^ talks about people living in a bubble.

Seriously.

I don't know man after reading this and Politico's post about Romney's masculine 6'2 frame, I'm now convinced that Romney would have caught those bullets and RPG's with his teeth  He then would have created 10 American jobs in the auto industry using all that steel.


RIP to the victims and thanks for their service to this country.

...make that 4 embassies in 3 days, thanks for creating this problem

Yes, patrick1, how dare you?!

and not listening when we shouted that this would happen. 

Who shouted about this, exactly? The voices in your head?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9slquoIuPC8
Largely my position.  Literally about every non leftist serious person saw this coming and we were telling everyone before and during and after the main events transpired.  It's so incredible how everything was known, predicted, warned, pleaded, greatly detailed, published, etc and you act like "O' shucks, no one saw this coming nothing you could have done, how dare Romney criticize Obama for being a total screw up on foreign policy."

It's another "bad day" let's go campaign in Ohio or something.   

As opposed to, y'know, Romney's disgusting response?
What exactly was disgusting?  Obama, Clinton, and Jay Carney have been the textbook definition of "disgusting" and as far as I can tell Romney has merely pointed out important things (with better timing than BOs Admin.) in a presidential manner.  The dems think this is about a movie on youtube for crying out loud!  Talk about an ignorant-disgusting position.     

[Link]

Nobody wants to see images of the flag being burnt without a strong response that puts an end to such displays.

Speak for yourself.  I don't buy into neocon fantasies that attacking a Muslim country picked at random out of a hat is going to stop this kind of behavior.  If you read the paper the latest reports pretty much are ruling out some sort of spontaneous grass roots demostration.  This was the same Al Queda attack we've been experiencing for years despite killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims.

It is becoming increasingly clear that this is developing into a negative for Obama, whose substantive strong suit a week ago was foreign policy. Now he only has the "likeable" factor going for him.

Just want to let you know I checked and Bin Laden is still dead.

[AmericanNation]

Just want to let you know I checked and Bin Laden is still dead.

...and Bush is still more responsible for killing him than Barrack Obama.  I guess I'm missing how getting a phone call on a golf course and saying "yea go ahead and kill the #1 sworn enemy of this country" is an "achievement" or deserving of merit, but than I remember that Bill Clinton and Joe Biden wouldn't say "yes I authorize" for some incomprehensible reason.  So, BO had the ability to say "yes" when 95% of the country would/could do the same thing.  WOW, does he dress himself too?     

[Link]

95% of the country would/could...    

95% of the country thinks Call of Duty on the Xbox 360 is real and The Bourne Identity is a documentary.  We let one trigger happy buffoon into the White House and that got us Iraq and a protracted Afgahnistan war... and our embassies are still being attacked.

[Warren 4 Secretary of Everything]

Just want to let you know I checked and Bin Laden is still dead.

...and Bush is still more responsible for killing him than Barrack Obama.  I guess I'm missing how getting a phone call on a golf course and saying "yea go ahead and kill the #1 sworn enemy of this country" is an "achievement" or deserving of merit, but than I remember that Bill Clinton and Joe Biden wouldn't say "yes I authorize" for some incomprehensible reason.  So, BO had the ability to say "yes" when 95% of the country would/could do the same thing.  WOW, does he dress himself too?     

There was only a 45% or so chance he was there. The President had to make a decision regarding whether to send American troops into a sovereign middle eastern state for an enemy we weren't even sure was there. You'd all blame him for him as a failure if Bin Laden hadn't been there, so why not give him credit for making the tough decision that proved correct?

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9slquoIuPC8
Largely my position.  Literally about every non leftist serious person saw this coming and we were telling everyone before and during and after the main events transpired.  It's so incredible how everything was known, predicted, warned, pleaded, greatly detailed, published, etc and you act like "O' shucks, no one saw this coming nothing you could have done, how dare Romney criticize Obama for being a total screw up on foreign policy."

Sorry, Niall Ferguson doesn't count as a "serious person."

What exactly was disgusting?  Obama, Clinton, and Jay Carney have been the textbook definition of "disgusting" and as far as I can tell Romney has merely pointed out important things (with better timing than BOs Admin.) in a presidential manner.[lolno]  The dems think this is about a movie on youtube for crying out loud!  Talk about an ignorant-disgusting position.

You don't see what's disgusting about smirking about the death of an American ambassador?

[AmericanNation]

Just want to let you know I checked and Bin Laden is still dead.

...and Bush is still more responsible for killing him than Barrack Obama.  I guess I'm missing how getting a phone call on a golf course and saying "yea go ahead and kill the #1 sworn enemy of this country" is an "achievement" or deserving of merit, but than I remember that Bill Clinton and Joe Biden wouldn't say "yes I authorize" for some incomprehensible reason.  So, BO had the ability to say "yes" when 95% of the country would/could do the same thing.  WOW, does he dress himself too?     

There was only a 45% or so chance he was there. The President had to make a decision regarding whether to send American troops into a sovereign middle eastern state for an enemy we weren't even sure was there. You'd all blame him for him as a failure if Bin Laden hadn't been there, so why not give him credit for making the tough decision that proved correct?

It wasn't a tough decision, There was more than a 45% chance ( some reports vary), We have had people in Pakistan for decades now, I wouldn't blame a failed military operation on the president if he didn't do anything wrong/unreasonable (some might, but that's kind of irrelevant).  I'm GIVING HIM CREDIT for saying "yes I authorize", which is all he did.  Bush did far more work and Obama campaigned on reversing the Bush policies that were critical to making it happen.  I also give Obama credit for violating his stupid campaign promises, but I hold him accountable for lying.  You got about 1 out of 6 right :-)          

[AmericanNation]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9slquoIuPC8
Largely my position.  Literally about every non leftist serious person saw this coming and we were telling everyone before and during and after the main events transpired.  It's so incredible how everything was known, predicted, warned, pleaded, greatly detailed, published, etc and you act like "O' shucks, no one saw this coming nothing you could have done, how dare Romney criticize Obama for being a total screw up on foreign policy."

Sorry, Niall Ferguson doesn't count as a "serious person."

What exactly was disgusting?  Obama, Clinton, and Jay Carney have been the textbook definition of "disgusting" and as far as I can tell Romney has merely pointed out important things (with better timing than BOs Admin.) in a presidential manner.[lolno]  The dems think this is about a movie on youtube for crying out loud!  Talk about an ignorant-disgusting position.

You don't see what's disgusting about smirking about the death of an American ambassador?

Romney didn't smirk about the death of the ambassador, I mean that's so absurd and disingenuous that you have to not be thinking when you said that, or you're motivated/blinded by hate, or in an echo chamber spewing that filth, or something like that. 

Isn't getting someone killed by ones incompetence worse, than say your mouth supposedly moving upward when making important comments? ? ?     

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9slquoIuPC8
Largely my position.  Literally about every non leftist serious person saw this coming and we were telling everyone before and during and after the main events transpired.  It's so incredible how everything was known, predicted, warned, pleaded, greatly detailed, published, etc and you act like "O' shucks, no one saw this coming nothing you could have done, how dare Romney criticize Obama for being a total screw up on foreign policy."

Sorry, Niall Ferguson doesn't count as a "serious person."

What exactly was disgusting?  Obama, Clinton, and Jay Carney have been the textbook definition of "disgusting" and as far as I can tell Romney has merely pointed out important things (with better timing than BOs Admin.) in a presidential manner.[lolno]  The dems think this is about a movie on youtube for crying out loud!  Talk about an ignorant-disgusting position.

You don't see what's disgusting about smirking about the death of an American ambassador?

Romney didn't smirk about the death of the ambassador,

Romney made a factually inaccurate speech about the attacks on the embassies for political gain, and after he concluded, he smirked.
...
...
Okay, I'll concede he may have been smirking about the attacks in general, or about the effect they would have had on the election. That's no less despicable.

I mean that's so absurd and disingenuous that you have to not be thinking when you said that, or you're motivated/blinded by hate, or in an echo chamber spewing that filth, or something like that.  

Hypocrisy is a word you should look up, AmericanNation.

Isn't getting someone killed by ones incompetence

That's some laughable spin right there.

worse, than say your mouth supposedly moving upward when making important comments? ? ?      

Obama took the attacks seriously. Romney didn't. Which one would be better on foreign policy is obvious.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If American Nation was in the possession of a fully functioning set of brain cells he would shut the fyck up before deleting his posts in this thread, before vowing never to mention this subject ever again.

[AmericanNation]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9slquoIuPC8
Largely my position.  Literally about every non leftist serious person saw this coming and we were telling everyone before and during and after the main events transpired.  It's so incredible how everything was known, predicted, warned, pleaded, greatly detailed, published, etc and you act like "O' shucks, no one saw this coming nothing you could have done, how dare Romney criticize Obama for being a total screw up on foreign policy."

Sorry, Niall Ferguson doesn't count as a "serious person."

What exactly was disgusting?  Obama, Clinton, and Jay Carney have been the textbook definition of "disgusting" and as far as I can tell Romney has merely pointed out important things (with better timing than BOs Admin.) in a presidential manner.[lolno]  The dems think this is about a movie on youtube for crying out loud!  Talk about an ignorant-disgusting position.

You don't see what's disgusting about smirking about the death of an American ambassador?

Romney didn't smirk about the death of the ambassador,

Romney made a factually inaccurate speech about the attacks on the embassies for political gain, and after he concluded, he smirked.
I'm unaware of any inaccurate facts.  I've been busy so I haven't checked, but I would think that someone would point out one inaccurate thing on this thread to bolster their argument, so far nothing.
...
...
Okay, I'll concede he may have been smirking about the attacks in general, or about the effect they would have had on the election. That's no less despicable.
This is a serious situation and you're reduced to this level? I mean come up with something better.  "Obama laughed at the holocaust" would be on your level in this case.

I mean that's so absurd and disingenuous that you have to not be thinking when you said that, or you're motivated/blinded by hate, or in an echo chamber spewing that filth, or something like that.  

Hypocrisy is a word you should look up, AmericanNation.

Isn't getting someone killed by ones incompetence

That's some laughable spin right there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9slquoIuPC8 no spin, all facts, documented, verified, witnessed, simple cold hard truth.  I would say I told you so, but I feel bad about it more than if I didn't know it was coming. It's like premonition guilt.  

worse, than say your mouth supposedly moving upward when making important comments? ? ?      

Obama took the attacks seriously. Romney didn't. Which one would be better on foreign policy is obvious.

Seriously?!?!?  HE THINKS THE ATTACKS ARE BECAUSE OF A YOUTUBE VIDEO!  HE DOESN'T THINK HE DID ANYTHING WRONG in 'backing' the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt and Libya. Romney is right on both those points and Obama is insanely wrong.  So, yeah Romney would clear a pretty low bar as far as being better on foreign policy.  

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It wasn't a tough decision, There was more than a 45% chance ( some reports vary), We have had people in Pakistan for decades now, I wouldn't blame a failed military operation on the president if he didn't do anything wrong/unreasonable (some might, but that's kind of irrelevant).    

Bullcrap.  If Operation Eagle Claw had worked, then Jimmy Carter would have been reelected.  The decision to go after Bin Laden was definitely a tough one on many levels, one of which was political.  If Bin Laden hadn't been there, or worse, was there but got away, then Obama would have thrown away any chance of being reelected. Whereas, if it had been decided to not go on the mission, the election right now would be much the same as it is now.  Romney might be marginally closer, but not significantly so.

If nothing else, it is an example of Obama being willing to do what his gut told him was the right thing to do instead of being willing to do what his gut told him was the right thing to do politically, which seems to be Romney's MO.  That's why Obama is winning this election right now.  More people prefer Obama's guts to Romney's.

Obama took the attacks seriously. Romney didn't. Which one would be better on foreign policy is obvious.

Seriously?!?!?  HE THINKS THE ATTACKS ARE BECAUSE OF A YOUTUBE VIDEO!  HE DOESN'T THINK HE DID ANYTHING WRONG in 'backing' the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt and Libya. Romney is right on both those points and Obama is insanely wrong.  So, yeah Romney would clear a pretty low bar as far as being better on foreign policy. 

No, the protests were because of the video as used by those who wanted to stoke a confrontation for their own aims.  The attack on our consulate in Bengazi was a terrorist operation that took advantage of the protest there as cover.

[AmericanNation]

It wasn't a tough decision, There was more than a 45% chance ( some reports vary), We have had people in Pakistan for decades now, I wouldn't blame a failed military operation on the president if he didn't do anything wrong/unreasonable (some might, but that's kind of irrelevant).    

Bullcrap.  If Operation Eagle Claw had worked, then Jimmy Carter would have been reelected.  The decision to go after Bin Laden was definitely a tough one on many levels, one of which was political.  If Bin Laden hadn't been there, or worse, was there but got away, then Obama would have thrown away any chance of being reelected. Whereas, if it had been decided to not go on the mission, the election right now would be much the same as it is now.  Romney might be marginally closer, but not significantly so.

If nothing else, it is an example of Obama being willing to do what his gut told him was the right thing to do instead of being willing to do what his gut told him was the right thing to do politically, which seems to be Romney's MO.  That's why Obama is winning this election right now.  More people prefer Obama's guts to Romney's.

I disagree that it would be a huge political liability.  I mean, look at Bill Clinton's popularity and he missed/messed up getting Bin Laden at least 2 or 3 times.  Bush/US military 'could' have got Bin Laden at Torra Borra supposedly and he was reelected.  The fact that you lead with "taking a minor political risk in order to authorize a necessary military operation" as some major accomplishment basically confirms my point(s).     

Obama took the attacks seriously. Romney didn't. Which one would be better on foreign policy is obvious.

Seriously?!?!?  HE THINKS THE ATTACKS ARE BECAUSE OF A YOUTUBE VIDEO!  HE DOESN'T THINK HE DID ANYTHING WRONG in 'backing' the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt and Libya. Romney is right on both those points and Obama is insanely wrong.  So, yeah Romney would clear a pretty low bar as far as being better on foreign policy. 

No, the protests were because of the video as used by those who wanted to stoke a confrontation for their own aims.  The attack on our consulate in Bengazi was a terrorist operation that took advantage of the protest there as cover.

Again you're making my point.  These attacks have almost nothing to do with the video and Obama, Clinton, Carney, Dems think it's the major/only reason.  Worse they have a hard time comprehending the real reasons and will refuse to admit/confront them.  That's why Obama didn't see this coming and it was obvious to so many of us. 

Also, "I'm not George W. Bush and please Love me" is not a viable foreign policy.   

[Filuwaúrdjan]

For your own sake shut the fyck up.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

I'm unaware of any inaccurate facts.  I've been busy so I haven't checked, but I would think that someone would point out one inaccurate thing on this thread to bolster their argument,

Romney: "It's disgraceful that the Obama Administration's first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks."
The actual tweet he was referring to (whose originators have little or no connection to the top of the administration anyway): "The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims — as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions."
This was, by the way, posted before the attacks happened.
Draw your own conclusions. [Or rather don't, considering they would in all likelihood be bizarrely anti-realitarian.]

so far nothing.

You hadn't asked yet.

This is a serious situation and you're reduced to this level? I mean come up with something better.  "Obama laughed at the holocaust" would be on your level in this case.

This is a serious situation and you're reduced to Godwinning? I mean come up with something better.
What else was he smirking about, then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9slquoIuPC8 no spin, all facts, documented, verified, witnessed, simple cold hard truth.  I would say I told you so, but I feel bad about it more than if I didn't know it was coming. It's like premonition guilt.

Niall Ferguson is not a valid source.

Seriously?!?!?  HE THINKS THE ATTACKS ARE BECAUSE OF A YOUTUBE VIDEO! 

What Ernest said.

HE DOESN'T THINK HE DID ANYTHING WRONG in 'backing' the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt and Libya.

You can't support democracy in one country in one country and not in another, AN.