SENATE BILL: Getting Real About the Cabinet Amendment (Failed)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor: Marokai Blue

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

24 hours blue brotha!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You are right, the question is finding Mr. Right for that position and so far we haven't. I am reluctant to abolish it, simply because of all the bills that reference it or rely on it. We just passed one, I believe.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I am also reluctant to abolish this position because I don't believe it is entirely useless.  For example, Carl was, in my opinion, a very good SOIA.  I think we need to focus more on promoting coordination between the departments rather than just eliminating one, which is what the Government Oversight and Reform Committee focused on during the last session.

I'm of the belief that "finding Mr. Right" is probably the best way of going about this -- and if it fails, throw the bum out.  I am still pessimistic about morgieb being SOIA because he hasn't done anything since taking office.

Yes and there is plenty for the SoIA to do, as a I mentioned the countless bills that reference and even rely on it. What we need to do is force the occupants of this and every other office to do their job. If we repeal then someone would have to pick up the responsiblity and the likilihood is that it would jsut be thrown on the GM's already large pile.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

MAROKAI, YOU SLIPPIN?


First you declare too early and now this. Didn't you write the damn constitution?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

If I don't see an amendment to well turn tihs into an Amendment, then I might be forced to use the impractical clause.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

MAROKAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Anyway.

We just had another bill get signed into law that references the DoIA, and the Education bill has no less then five such references that I counted in it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Okay, now he's pissed me off.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Are you motioning to withdraw or table this bill then?

I am not the one proposing to do nothing about the SoIA. I think that would be you by just giving up on it. On the contrary, we need to do the opposite. We need to do something to the SoIA.

I never relax!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Objection entered by Senator Scott. This amendment is now at vote, Senators please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Hmm, this isn't really about the underlying idea but the functionality (legality) of the bill in achieving that.

So Aye for now, definately likely Nay on the final vote.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Oh for heaven's sake, get it in gear here people!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

YOU CALL THIS A HIGHER GEAR?!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I shouldn't need to threaten such just to get you people to vote.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Time on this expired yesterday. I thought it was today.

Vote on Amendment 51:05:

Aye (4): HagridoftheDeep, Marokai Blue, NC Yankee  and NVownsend
Nay (2): Ben and Scott
Abstain (1): Redalgo

Didn't Vote (2): BK and Sbane (20 minutes too late man. )

The amendment has passed. We done here?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

For what it's worth I really implore people to support this. I understand everyone wants a handholdy solution to this problem but we created a position three years ago that has yet to be utilized well at all, and though people understandably have concerns about the increased workload on the GM.. again, we've never had a situation so far where that wasn't already the case. This position simply hasn't proved its worth after far more than enough time. It sucks but it's just undeniable.

I don't see anything "handholdy" about the committees. Hand-chop-off maybe. If that is handholdy to you, then damn man you are something else.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Marokai, are you ready for a final vote here?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Discussion on the merits of the bill, constitutes debate and thus requires under a section of the OSPR (I don't have the link handy), that cloture either be passed or waived. I prefer waiving it because votes can take a long time.

I ask unanimous consent to waive the cloture requirement and proceed immediately to a final vote, Senators have 24 hours to object.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Senators, this trash is now at final vote, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

NAY!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We just passed the Equal Rights Amendment and abolished the death penalty. I think if there is consensus enough to pass those so relatively easily and by such margins, that it shouldn't be that difficult to get an amendment through abolishing a cabinet position down the road. If the SoEA and the other positions were are in the Constitution as well, thne obviously there was a desire to place the cabinet in that document and obviously, since Marokai BLue was intimately involved in the crafting of this Constitution, then clearly he must have thought there was a solid reason to elevate the cabinet like that at the time. So, if you are going to remove one just on the basis of "empowering the Senate", why not remove the others?

We are altering the Constitution to make a change to something easier to accomplish, at the same time that very same person has pushed hard to sabotage  that something, by trying to block pending reforms, clearly demonstrating a firm opposition that won't be change, to that very something. In fact it looks remarkably similar to a previous occassion when a certain Senator, joined in an effort to try and reduce the ratification requirements for Constitutional amendments, conveniently, just before an attempt to abolish Regional Senate seats was coming down the pike in the Senate and was very controversial. Just saying!

There is problem with the Department of Internal Affairs. Guess what, there is problem with the Department of External Affairs as well. There have been problems with the Game Moderator. In 2009, when I worked with Senator Purple State to reform that position, there were people saying just screw it, get rid of it. We have passed reforms since then as well and the position is much better than it was.

One of the major hindrences to all these positions has been lack of activity, the lack of expectations of activity and the lack of oversight. The fact that no one has demanded, "okay why haven't you done jack sh**t since last month, or in some instances, since taking office?" We have groups of people who think the fact that this is a game, gives them a license to screw off, they treat this place a place to screw around with each other and with other people. Usually they get a free pass because they were here from days of yore and the only accountability brought to bare was on those who dared question them or demand certain expectations from them. Another group is a group of people who thought they were up for it, but the finals were a bitch, or the new job is taking all of their time. I understand that, I am not blaming them for that. But if it gets to a point where they can't function at all, there should be an expectation that someone would demand a change and thus they would be compelled to resign, "for the good of the game", or be fired. That hasn't existed, we are afraid they might take it too personally, or "They weren't standing up for a fellow (insert Party), or that a friend might be lost. There is a small number of people in this game and close friendships (and sometimes even more then that) have formed. Just because this is a game doesn't mean that there isn't responsiblity. You can't fall asleep in the middle of a poker game, and expect the game to continue. Either the game ends or you are dealt out. If they are trully friends, then they should understand your position if you are charged with deciding whether to fire them. If the culture of the game encourages that approach to be taken, it makes it less difficult, because the understanding is clear going in. If appointed my friend Duke to something some day and he failed, I would respectfully ask that he resign, and I would hope that he would do the same to me in the reversed roles. If is just a game, then it shouldn't be that important in terms of a friendship, if is more, then clearly it has even more responsibility to be active and thus it shouldn't be a problem anyway.

The committees present the possibility that the kind of constant oversight be an on going process for all these positions. Inactivity will then become an issue for an office holder within the first few days of an absence, rather than taking a whole month. We need to get all these people coordinating and collabortating with each other, because without them we loose functionality. We are at our best when they work together to create a dynamic economic, geo-political and current events engine that the politics can then react to. The problems with the DoIA aren't specific to that position, and just killing it isn't going to fix the problem, it is just dealing removing a symptom. It is like choppin of an arm that has the manifestation of an systemtic, body-wide infection.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We just passed the Equal Rights Amendment and abolished the death penalty. I think if there is consensus enough to pass those so relatively easily and by such margins, that it shouldn't be that difficult to get an amendment through abolishing a cabinet position down the road.

Not to TL;DR your post (actually, you make a lot of good points), but come on, those passed because they were good policies, not because its easy to pass an amendment to the Constitution.

I am not saying it is or should be easy, but if arguments can be made that could lead ot the ERA passing every region, I am sure that such arguments could be carried about the functionality of an office, with less trouble doing so. If people come to the conlusion it is good to abolish the SoIA, then it shouldn't be difficult to get the same result. If Marokai wants to remove one cabinet member from the Purple State/Marokai Blue Constitution, then we should expect either all of them to be removed, or a convincing argument for special treatment that isn't based on his somewhat feeble justifications for abolishing the office.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I count 3 Ayes, 5 Nays, with Bacon King and NV Townsend not voting. Since this is a 2/3rds vote on an Amendment, this has enough votes to fail. Senators have 24 hours to change their votes.