In your opinion is the economy doing well?
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  In your opinion is the economy doing well?
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Author Topic: In your opinion is the economy doing well?  (Read 1618 times)
milhouse24
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« on: September 15, 2012, 05:04:55 PM »

In your opinion is the economy doing well?  As the economy effects you, your job, your family and friends?  Is your local economy and national economy doing well? 

It seems the national economic figures don't align with the opinions of everyday American middle class voters.  Are Americans doing better than the economic figures indicate?
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2012, 05:17:51 PM »

In your opinion is the economy doing well?

No, but it's doing better than it was during the Bush hard freeze.
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Nathan
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2012, 05:19:58 PM »

It seems the national economic figures don't align with the opinions of everyday American middle class voters.  Are Americans doing better than the economic figures indicate?

Some are doing better and some are doing worse. Pertinent to this election I think is the fact that in some of the more easterly swing states the economy is better than the national average by many measures. I'm living in an area where the economy is doing decent but not great, but a lot of my family lives in places where things are taking a little longer to get going again after the 2007-8 crash.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2012, 05:32:55 PM »

It seems the national economic figures don't align with the opinions of everyday American middle class voters. 

Yeah, because the public debate has been polluted by the lies and half-truths of the Usual Suspects.
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2012, 05:35:47 PM »

It seems the national economic figures don't align with the opinions of everyday American middle class voters. 

Yeah, because the public debate has been polluted by the lies and half-truths of the Usual Suspects.

It's kind of like how in the 1990s and 2000s, The Media kept gloating about how great the economy was, even though it really wasn't.
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Politico
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2012, 06:05:12 PM »

A "good" economy is hard to define, but you know it when you see it. Alas, this is not a good economy.
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krazen1211
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2012, 06:16:58 PM »

Depends on who you are.

Rich entities like Apple and Mitt Romney are making lots of money.

Lucky entitles like General Motors who are exempt from the federal income tax are making lots of money too.




Indeed, the 1%ers have done better under Obama than they did under Bush, Clinton, or Reagan. Funny eh?
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cope1989
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2012, 07:27:34 PM »

Depends on who you are.

Rich entities like Apple and Mitt Romney are making lots of money.

Lucky entitles like General Motors who are exempt from the federal income tax are making lots of money too.




Indeed, the 1%ers have done better under Obama than they did under Bush, Clinton, or Reagan. Funny eh?

And yet the meme that Obama hates big business is alive and well
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bgwah
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2012, 07:33:53 PM »

It's been improving a lot locally.
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Mehmentum
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2012, 07:34:34 PM »

No, but its improving.
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20RP12
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2012, 07:36:31 PM »

Of course not, it's not a matter of opinion. If you think 8% unemployment is 'good,' you clearly don't understand economics.

And no, it's not improving either. That's not really a matter of opinion either, but it's more open for interpretation than the question 'is it doing well'
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Sbane
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2012, 07:40:00 PM »

Doing much better than it was.
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diskymike44
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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2012, 07:57:56 PM »

We are doing better now than 4 years ago. I give the economy a Fair-Good rating.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2012, 08:26:47 PM »

It's doing about as well as it can considering one of our two parties has actively worked to sabotage it for the past 3 and a half years.
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rwoy
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2012, 08:32:50 PM »

In my opinion the economy has not done well since the 90's and employing the economic policies which landed us in the Great Recession (as Romney suggests) will only make things worse.
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Beet
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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2012, 08:33:03 PM »

In all the areas where it isn't doing as well (low aggregate demand, income inequality, poverty, full employment, poor infrastructure) are areas that Democrats have been saying are problems for decades, even though Democrats have been constrained by things like the overton window and the GOP from doing very much about it. In all the areas where it is doing well, they're areas that Republicans have said for decades are the standard-bearer of a good economy: low taxes, thriving companies, wealth for the rich "job creators", low CPI inflation, cutting government spending and employment, cutting union membership and power. Republicans are in the strange position of trying to denigrate an economy where the most potent chief complaints are those coming from the left of the Democratic Party.
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krazen1211
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« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2012, 08:45:54 PM »

Depends on who you are.

Rich entities like Apple and Mitt Romney are making lots of money.

Lucky entitles like General Motors who are exempt from the federal income tax are making lots of money too.




Indeed, the 1%ers have done better under Obama than they did under Bush, Clinton, or Reagan. Funny eh?

And yet the meme that Obama hates big business is alive and well

Well, yes, he did build that meme for himself.
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Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2012, 09:16:48 PM »

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I've not heard a single Democrat mention workforce participation levels have dropped to 1983 levels, before the massive boom of the 90s. This means more single worker families, where one parent stays at home.

Is this really what you folks want? I mean if we want to go back to the 50s, we're well on the way there.

I have heard a Democrat say that 4.5 percent unemployment is cause to get rid of Bush, but 7.9 percent unemployment is cause to retain Obama.
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Beet
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« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2012, 09:33:31 PM »

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I've not heard a single Democrat mention workforce participation levels have dropped to 1983 levels, before the massive boom of the 90s.

Workforce participation is a misleading statistic because secular long-term trends have been causing workforce participation to decline that have nothing to do with cyclical economic factors or job availability. More young people are getting education at all levels; more teens are participating in extracurricular activities rather than taking the 'summer job'; a greater share of the population is over 65 (a trend which accelerated with baby boomers hitting retirement age beginning in 2011), and workforce participation statistics include them; prime, working-age men 25-54 have seen a long-term decline in workforce participation across business cycles; womens' rate of joining the workforce has also slowed across business cycles. In fact, in the plentiful jobs environment of the mid-to-late 1990s is when womens' workforce participation stopped rising.

No one is saying the job market is good at the moment [the argument is over what policies will help], so there's no need to use misleading statistics to try and make such an argument.
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Politico
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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2012, 01:12:31 AM »
« Edited: September 16, 2012, 01:19:20 AM by Politico »

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I've not heard a single Democrat mention workforce participation levels have dropped to 1983 levels, before the massive boom of the 90s. This means more single worker families, where one parent stays at home.

Is this really what you folks want? I mean if we want to go back to the 50s, we're well on the way there.

I have heard a Democrat say that 4.5 percent unemployment is cause to get rid of Bush, but 7.9 percent unemployment is cause to retain Obama.

Yep, and don't forget Democrats who were outraged by $2.00/gallon gas in 2004 who are defending $4.00/gallon gas in 2012.

Obama's record is so awful and this environment is so god-awful that I am confident this is going to break heavily in Romney's direction. Even a lot of people who hate Romney and his positions on certain social issues will hold their nose and mark their ballot for him even though they'll never admit it to anybody until things finally turn around under Romney's stewardship. Consider this a forewarning for those of you who play on Intrade: The exit polls are probably going to underestimate Romney's support by a significant margin (think 2004 but on an even greater level).
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Politico
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« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2012, 01:13:46 AM »

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I've not heard a single Democrat mention workforce participation levels have dropped to 1983 levels, before the massive boom of the 90s.

Workforce participation is a misleading statistic because secular long-term trends have been causing workforce participation to decline that have nothing to do with cyclical economic factors or job availability. More young people are getting education at all levels; more teens are participating in extracurricular activities rather than taking the 'summer job'; a greater share of the population is over 65 (a trend which accelerated with baby boomers hitting retirement age beginning in 2011), and workforce participation statistics include them; prime, working-age men 25-54 have seen a long-term decline in workforce participation across business cycles; womens' rate of joining the workforce has also slowed across business cycles. In fact, in the plentiful jobs environment of the mid-to-late 1990s is when womens' workforce participation stopped rising.

No one is saying the job market is good at the moment [the argument is over what policies will help], so there's no need to use misleading statistics to try and make such an argument.

You don't want a thing to change because Washington, DC is doing well and you're in the thick of it. We understand. What we don't understand is why you refuse to admit that the rest of America is seriously struggling...
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morgieb
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« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2012, 01:14:31 AM »

Not in America...which is what sh**ts me about Australian voters.
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LastVoter
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« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2012, 02:46:26 AM »

In all the areas where it isn't doing as well (low aggregate demand, income inequality, poverty, full employment, poor infrastructure) are areas that Democrats have been saying are problems for decades, even though Democrats have been constrained by things like the overton window and the GOP from doing very much about it. In all the areas where it is doing well, they're areas that Republicans have said for decades are the standard-bearer of a good economy: low taxes, thriving companies, wealth for the rich "job creators", low CPI inflation, cutting government spending and employment, cutting union membership and power. Republicans are in the strange position of trying to denigrate an economy where the most potent chief complaints are those coming from the left of the Democratic Party.
Can you elaborate on this part?
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Rockingham
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« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2012, 03:26:30 AM »

Of course not, it's not a matter of opinion. If you think 8% unemployment is 'good,' you clearly don't understand economics.
This post proves that you don't understand economics. Unemployment levels are irrelevant to the question of how healthy an economy is- for example, GM firing all of it's human labour in a plant and replacing it with mechanical labour would constitute an increase in the economy's health.

This is one of the reasons the unemployment rate is so high now- companies responded to the recession by increasing mechanization and outsourcing, as well as purging inefficiency. Unpleasant though this is for the individuals involved, it is surely a good thing. The second reason is the plummeting number of government employees on the state level(1.7 million lower since the recession began), if not for that the unemployment rate would be 7.1% rather then 8.2%. Some people might consider said downsizing a necessary evil as well.

Even the fallen consumption could be considered a good thing since pre-recession consumption was unsustainably excessive. The recession has in fact been associated with a significant decline in the trade deficit, although it remains high, so if anything aggregate demand hasn't fallen enough.
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Sbane
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« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2012, 09:31:28 AM »

Quote
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I've not heard a single Democrat mention workforce participation levels have dropped to 1983 levels, before the massive boom of the 90s. This means more single worker families, where one parent stays at home.

Is this really what you folks want? I mean if we want to go back to the 50s, we're well on the way there.

I have heard a Democrat say that 4.5 percent unemployment is cause to get rid of Bush, but 7.9 percent unemployment is cause to retain Obama.

Yep, and don't forget Democrats who were outraged by $2.00/gallon gas in 2004 who are defending $4.00/gallon gas in 2012.

Obama's record is so awful and this environment is so god-awful that I am confident this is going to break heavily in Romney's direction. Even a lot of people who hate Romney and his positions on certain social issues will hold their nose and mark their ballot for him even though they'll never admit it to anybody until things finally turn around under Romney's stewardship. Consider this a forewarning for those of you who play on Intrade: The exit polls are probably going to underestimate Romney's support by a significant margin (think 2004 but on an even greater level).

Ok, then put your money where your mouth is and buy Romney shares on Intrade.
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