French UMP leadership election, 2012 (user search)
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« on: November 22, 2012, 01:38:46 PM »

Ah well, now that it is typed I can't help linking it to here:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=165295.0

...in case some of the brilliant episodes of all of this had been missed here.

And this post could fit right here:

...LAST BREAKING!

Juppé considers that according to their statements it seems that both camps have accepted his proposal. Which wasn't so clear given Fillon camp says it refuses it happens after the appeal commission, and Coppé maintains they want this commission, let's see then...

Frankly, since yesterday, I don't know what to think, that's totally unusual for the UMP, and symptomatic about so many things about the UMP, the French Right, the French political situation and institutions, and even about our society generally speaking, lot of develop about that, but so far it's more intense to follow than a football match! The situation seems to take a new direction every 30 mins!

Ah, and, the most ironical obviously being Sarkozy that could be prosecuted today...

Apparently it is really helping to tone things down. But nothing says it would rule the things, it went really violent. And Gaino is saying right now that this new commission would only be consultative.

Also, it is said to take a decision in 10 days, 30th of November is in 8 days.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2012, 01:52:19 PM »

Very last news:

Juppé will meet Copé and Fillon on Sunday.

So I arrive here at the end of the '1st season' of the drama. 2nd season might begin on Sunday if people manage to keep their calm till then.

I wonder how it can evolve...
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2012, 05:26:22 PM »

Copé is an utterly disgusting individual.

Nah, he's just a totally modern politician, the biggest prototype of it we ever had in France, we are not used to it here so far, he took all the bad sides of Sarkozy and pushed it the furthest he could, but he has neither the 'talent', nor the strength of Sarkozy, so it gives a quite pitiful show, and yeah, a rather annoying one. As a politician that's an annoying bad clown, as an individual that seems to be someone a quite average one. I tend to think that in the total politico-economico-mediatico circus and permanent agitation people would be less and less conscious of what they are doing/saying, like those mice in their wheels (and to think we're in France which seemed more preserved than other countries so far about those stuffs, maybe we're all taking at once...).

I'd also rather support Fillon, who seems to still have a bit of sanity at least, but it would mainly be because he's more old school than Copé. Pécresse, Wauquiez, Ciotti, and some others wouldn't be much better than Copé as politicians, but yeah, globally those who still have a bit of sanity and/or political depth would rather be with Fillon than with Copé, I'd even tend to think it would be the main split within the UMP nowadays, because you can find centrists and 'far-rightists' in both camps, and truer centrists would in the end join UDI and truer far-rightists FN/RMB.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2012, 12:06:28 PM »

Yeah, the ceasefire doesn't seem to be accepted at all.

Only thing accepted so far finally, a meeting between Juppé, Fillon, and Copé, on Sunday, but nothing else so far.

6 days remaining...
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2012, 07:21:51 PM »
« Edited: November 23, 2012, 07:44:18 PM by Benwah [why on Earth do I post something] Courseyay »

Fillon finally accepted the UMP appeal commission during the evening, which was the biggest issue so far, after the demand of Juppé.

But even then, it wouldn't necessarily mean they surrender, can as well be to prepare a better defense if they attack in Justice later.

And nothing says Copé stole the election, he seems quite sure of himself while Fillon camp arguments and behavior seem rather messy.

Words continue to be rather violent then, and the only planed thing still is this meeting on Sunday, 19h.

Personally, I tend to think more and more they can't do anything but split, it went too far, too violent, and even Juppé isn't a consensual figurehead, Fillon camp would love to see him being the new president but Copé's are more and more pissed about him and his attitude of wise guy who is over everybody, so if even Juppé can't be consensual anymore, what's left?

Sarkozy!

Yeah, I tend to think today it could be the only solution not to make UMP blast. It would indeed be quite early for a come back for him, and he wouldn't have planed that at all, but who knows, if after Sunday both camps can't go along, then everybody will begin to speak about split, and all those who don't want to split could call for Sarkozy, and he's been washed yesterday in Bettencourt affair, polls have been quite good for him since the beginning of Hollande's quinquennat, and if a lot of people call for him maybe he wouldn't take the risk to appear as the guy who abandon his political family.

And if Sarkozy can't do anything, by a come back into the political circus or only by a strong intervention to tell people to make up their mind, then I'd say UMP is over.

Split would happen between Sunday and Friday then. Copé camp keeping all the official stuffs of the UMP, and Fillon camp and all his MPs (about 100 apparently) and elected people would have to create a new entity. That would become the last thing still kinda embodying what's left of Gaullisme/RPR, and still kinda representing a bit of political density, sanity, and decensy, but really without any dynamism, and perspectives, while Copé camp would be far more excited and dynamic but would become a rather empty stuff mainly made of communication...

Both would become small forces, between UDI and FN/RMB, they are really totally screwing themselves, and in the same time they offer a totally pitiful show, regardless of how it could be tense to follow, and concur to give an as much pitiful image of politics...

In any case, unless someone like Sarkozy makes a strong come back in between, Municipales could be destructive, it could have already been the case before all this mess, but now...

Kudos to them!

Let's just see what they are able to manage...
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2012, 01:52:21 PM »

BREAKING

AFP:

Juppé says the conditions for his mission are not present, he says his mission is over.

itélé says the commission is 'suspended'.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2012, 02:03:35 PM »

Copé on TV:

The UMP appeal commision has to do his joband say who is the president. Once done we could mix both teams for a new direction.

Nothing changed then.

He spoke from the town hall of Paris Vth, while the meeting with Juppé and Fillon took place in the Assemblée Nationale, which could mean that Copé lleft the Assemblée very fast.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2012, 02:17:17 PM »

Fillon and Juppé are apparently still discussing in the Assemblée, apparently Copé have also been kinda pissed by the fact that Juppé wasn't totally neutral, and all the love declaration of Fillon camp during those last days were not very discrete.

So yeah, meanwhile the UMP appeal commission official restarted its work right now. Ciotti had called Fillonistes to quit them during the day.

Oh and BREAKING!

Fillon attacks in Justice!

He says Copé is the only responsible for this.

UMP is over.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2012, 02:20:32 PM »

Now the question: will Fillon form a splinter party? Or too much of a Party Man for that?

Now yeah, and that's why UMP would be over, unless a sudden totally out of nowhere come back of Sarkozy!

The doctor Juppé didn't save it.

Only a miracle could now...


Nah, it's the Right, not the Left. The Man is above the Party, not the opposite, as Zemmour very well pointed out recently it could very well be why the PS didn't blast in Reims...
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2012, 02:50:51 PM »

Lionel Tardy, one of the main Filloniste MPs, on itélé:

La messe est dîte

Now it seems sure that we gonna create a new parliamentary group with the 134 other MPs supporting Fillon.

François Fillon would announce the official decision on Tuesday.

So yeah, Copé keeps the official UMP (well, what's left of it), and the split of the parliamentary group could be the 1st step to a new party, 'the last 'Gaulliste' breath'.

lol, Copé camp guys keeping saying, 'let's wait what the appeal will say!'...
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2012, 04:16:06 PM »
« Edited: November 25, 2012, 04:18:11 PM by Benwah [why on Earth do I post something] Courseyay »

Lionel Tardy, one of the main Filloniste MPs, on itélé:

La messe est dîte

Now it seems sure that we gonna create a new parliamentary group with the 134 other MPs supporting Fillon.

François Fillon would announce the official decision on Tuesday.

So yeah, Copé keeps the official UMP (well, what's left of it), and the split of the parliamentary group could be the 1st step to a new party, 'the last 'Gaulliste' breath'.

lol, Copé camp guys keeping saying, 'let's wait what the appeal will say!'...

So Fillon is really leaving? And he's taking 2/3 of MPs with him? Shocked That's wonderful news if true.

Well, that's what Lionel Tardy said, Lamour seemed to confirm it on itélé after.

Apparently tomorrow would come the officialization of Fillon's attack in Justice (lol, Copé guys continue again and again to speak about the appeal!).

Tuesday would be the day of the offcialization of the political decision.

Important thing to know, apparently you have to already have a political party before making a parliamentary group, so, it would mean that...

Also, yesterday, on itélé, they were speaking about 154 MPs, let's see what will be said on Tuesday.

But they were also saying that, each MP represents 42.000 euros, per year, to the political party to which a parliamentary group belongs, so, it would mean that...

They were also saying that UMP is currently knowing quite big debts, notably because of the buying of their new Parisian HQ, Rue de Vaugirard, which makes a debt of 35 millions of euros on 14 years, and that the loss of all those Fillon MPs would be a lack of...6 millions of euros so, it would meant that...





...that those people might be in trouble!



That being said, so far, in term of dynamic, Copé looks more impressive and more like the guy who's right, at worst he looks kinda arrogant, while Fillon looks kinda like the bad looser, and they kinda embody past political trends, but the trends could also change quickly enough, and the old school look of Fillon might in the end be seen like reassuring, and who knows, with the attack in Justice, maybe Copé could have new troubles. That being said, the most likely tonight, is that they more or less all lost!

Good covers:

Le Figaro got it:



And indeed:



Good one of Apparu on Twitter tonight:

La Droite Morte

Pick the one you prefer:







And the 35 millions € one:


Amusing how, often, the most something wants to look impressive and sedducive, the most it would hide something bad...
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2012, 06:02:07 PM »

...so the Sarokzy miracle will finally come??


While other papers focused on the clash that took place tonight, Le Parisien announces tonight that Fillon and Sarkozy will eat together tomorrow on midday.

During all the evening it looked like most of the strong historical Sarkozystes were siding Copé, and apparently Sarkozy was fine with a Copé win if you believe some journalists, and it went till that glorious Patrick Balkany tonight saying the charming:

Fillon doesn't only shoot a bullet in his foot by attacking in Justice, but also in his head.

Apparently it could be to try to convince not to attack in Justice. You never know what can happen but Fillon seems to be the stubborn guy not easy to handle, and who moreover could have been kinda pissed to be in Sarkozy shadow during 5 years, and now he has maybe the only occasion of his life to take a lead, and after this crazy violent week, Sarkozy would really need a miracle to convince him!

But you never know, it's been crazy during one week.

Would have been surprising he tries nothing anyhow, he would have effectively been seen as someone who abandons his political family...

So, new 'ultimatum', tomorrow, after the lunch...

(c'est vraiment n'importe quoi...)
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2012, 11:16:20 AM »

The mess continues...

Apparently the lunch with Sarkozy didn't change a lot, since later in the day Fillon began some judiciary steps and sent a bailiff (I'm discovering anew English word) to seize the documents of the appeal commission (before this commission gives its results!).

Copé camp asked a magistrate to oppose this, and the bailiff just left the UMP HQ, apparently he took nothing. The results of commission are said to come at worst in one hour. Fillon camp will announce their official judiciary decision after that. The political decisions are still planned for tomorrow.

Meanwhile everybody continue to go messy, some propose new vote (NKM, Estrosi), some one more new commission (Guéant), some that the new president don't run for primaries (Lemaire)Paillé (former UMP spokesman, left it for Borloo months ago) called Copé a Bokassa, the UMP treasurer, D. Dord, accuses Copé to have taken 200.000 € for his campaign, and so it goes in UMP, normal daily life of the post 21st November 2012 then...

Ah and, there is also the battle for Sarkozy now!

Both camps are claiming to have had 'a very warm discussion with Sarkozy'...

Anyhow, apparently, Fillon would attack.

More soon.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2012, 11:33:50 AM »

And the winner is...........

(should I write it?? well, ok)

JEAN-FRANCOIS!!

...Copé

Official results from the appeal commission (called CONARE, sounding like 'connard', which means 'bastard', kudos to them for that):

Win by 952 votes
Nouvelle-Calédonie cancelled
1st office of Alpes-Maritimes cancelled

Fillon reaction to come soon.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2012, 12:25:04 PM »

What are the chances of UMP being split, and new parties being formed?

And just for fun, what would you call them Smiley Wink

Decisions will be taken tomorrow, would all belong to the number of MPs who will accept to join Fillon. You never know. Fillon has for him some good polls, a rather good image nationally, or at least a better image than Copé, a kinda statesman status and embodies the traditional Right, which can be reassuring.

Copé has for him, his dynamic populism trying to take the best possible winds, and took rather the far-right wind, a wind which is already taken by a very strong personality who is trying to be more and more consensual, MLP.

Both has 50% of militants (which is something), and each one built a tough camp, and a violent opposition happened between them during one week.

Beyond the number of MPs and the number of voters that each one can have, what''s interesting is what happened with all the figureheads of the party, it wasn't only Fillon and a bunch of big guys around him, both have about 50% of the big figureheads of the party that engaged themselves into this violent fight. In term of image it's hard to imagine a reconciliation within a few days, but yes, the most important because the most concrete would remain the number of MPs who will accept to jump over it, and yes, indeed money and elective infrastructure will be important, will they stay behind the 35 millions € indebted classical label...


...well that being said, it's more than this debt, it's a big machine, and it can also still be seen as the historical home of Sarkozy, in which a lot of people in the UMP would still hope for a come back for 2017, so you never know...

...or would they join the...MPR!

Yeah, I also couldn't help wondering about a name for a new party around Fillon, Mouvement Populaire Rébuplicain could be pretty fine, wouldn't it?? Mix of UMP and RPR.

But hey, last news, 40 MPs, apparently mainly Copé's, but also a few Fillon's, Douillet is in it, called for the unity of the party around the new official leader. As journalists say, legitimist tradition would also be an important cultural aspect in the Right amongst those who are not leaders.

Earlier, Copé made a very consensualist speech ofter the official results, indeed calling for the unity of the party and for the organization of a big dialogue within the party.

So let's just see!

Chartier, other big Filloniste MP, just gave the official reaction of Fillon camp, they indeed don't recognize the results of the 'CONARE', and they say 'they gonna use all mean to make respect the vote of militants', and Bussereau, UMP baron, is speaking right now on itélé about finding any mean to revote. It seems to be their tactic, attacking in Justice in the name of a new vote, but one more time they really are not clear.

Chartier confirmed they gonna take political decisions for the UMP group tomorrow.

May Friday comes the soonest possible so that all of this ends!

This will be a boiling night for UMP MPs...

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tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2012, 03:09:29 PM »

BREAKING!

(well, sort of...)

AFP: Sarkozy says it would be preferable to vote again.

Voting again being the tag idea all Fillonistes are spreading in media tonight.

Sarkozy's word still kinda made of gold by everybody in the UMP so far, and overall by Copé and friends.

This stuff never let you quiet...
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2012, 05:31:11 PM »
« Edited: November 26, 2012, 05:33:48 PM by Benwah [why on Earth do I post something] Courseyay »

Apparently all of this happened during the lunch between Fillon and Sarkozy, in which Fillon would have been determined to attack in Justice, and Sarkozy apparently wants to avoid it at all costs, thus why he would have said that.

It was not a direct statement of Sarkozy to AFP, but this has been confirmed by Peltier, pro-Copé, leader of 'La Droite Forte', winning motion, tonight on itélé who got the same information from a close relative of Sarkozy. Peltier is now saying that, yeah, we could vote again, after several months...

Some other Copés say 'manipulation!', 'no way!'. Some say 'I don't know, I don't have an official information'. Some call for Sarkozy to make an official intervention.

Apparently using Justice was the good threat, they all want to avoid it at all cost, and a matter of time before Sarkozy statement, Fillon's lawyer made an offensive enough statement saying that they will at all cost have the truth. Going in Justice could, according to the developments that could occur take from a few days, to a few weeks, to one year.

Apparently several big Fillon MPs, Douillet, Accoyer, for those who spoke on TV, want to avoid at all cost the split of the parliamentary group too, and thus are pushing for a new vote too.

Some other big ones, Bussereau, Woerth, are hesitating.

And some other ones are still calling for it.

Regarding this question, the intermediary solution could be that they split the group but both stay in the UMP. That'd be messy to manage money though. 2 treasurers in the UMP?? The last treasurer, Dominique Dord, pro-Fillon, resigned today, accusing Copé to have used party's money for his campaign.

Frankly, so far, a new vote would seem the best solution if they don't want to shoot UMP and anyhow to avoid both Justice and a split. They create 3 commissions with people representing all camps:

1 electoral commission to organize the vote in the best possible conditions (because seems that Copé organization wasn't wonderful to say the least).

1 electoral commission to collect and give the results.

1 appeal commission.

A new vote takes place in about one month. And the guy who loses and all his camp totally surrender to the results. And there it goes it takes them one year to heal one week of violent injuries, and it remains a bit of an other year to try to not totally screw at next elections.

Otherwise, they would totally shoot themselves, either by Justice, and/or by a split, regardless it's a split of the parliamentary group or of the party, and/or the less quickly they find a way to heal the more the next elections could shoot them.

Or, one more time the...SARKOZY MIRACLE COMES...

But, no, apparently he doesn't want right now, though he has a great support who launched a petition for him to come back!

Mr Roland Chassain, Mayor of Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer, who has the brilliant title to be the 1st UMP candidate to let his place to a FN candidate against a Socialiste after the 1st round of the last Législatives, and also who defends death penalty against terrorists...

Oh and Sarkozy has an other big support...

It was about one month ago:



http://www.nicematin.com/monaco/un-azureen-fait-1-million-de-vues-sur-youtube-avec-sa-chanson-sarko-revient.1051343.html

Full oeuvre

Nicolas Sarkozy, I pray you to come back, come back save our life
Mr President, French are not happy, you have to change government

All what you have promised, you will never achieved, it's time to piss off
I mus recognize, that you tried, but you failed
Germans have supported us, now we're being f**ked up, we're screwed

Nicolas Sarkozy, I pray you to come back, come back save our life
Taxes make us sink
Peugeot Renault left
Arnaud too

Left box was ticked
52% were wrong
We gonna fix it

All what you have promised, you will never achieved, it's time to piss off
I mus recognize, that you tried, but you failed
Germans have supported us, now we're being f**ked up, we're screwed

Nicolas Sarkozy, I pray you to come back, come back save our life
Taxes make us sink
Peugeot Renault left
Arnaud too

Nicolas Sarkozy, I pray you to come back, come back save our life

Nico it's up to you
We won't give up
We gonna support you

Apparently I had enough time on my hands to translate it. Grin

Hope you enjoyed our new political star, it indeed became famous on TVs and stuffs...

There we are!
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2012, 09:20:41 AM »

Do we know how many MPs are ready to jump the boat?

Not clear, I saw numbers between 50 and 120.

At 15h they said 74, which makes 1/3 of the UMP group.

Sarkozy is apparently quite pissed about what's going on and asked Copé and Fillon to meet.

They just met in the Assemblée according to itélé.

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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2012, 09:28:03 AM »

Also interesting intervention of Anne Levade, interesting teacher of Constitutional Right, on itélé.

She said that attaching themselves to the Neo-Calédonienne entity wouldn't be totally neutral, by this way they would benefit of the 1st fraction of public funding the Néo-Calédonienne RUMP obtains.

I wasn't far by mixing RPR and UMP, but my MPR didn't have a 1st fraction of public funding...
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tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2012, 09:35:20 AM »

AH!

UMP, always here to go more messy.

Copé is apparently surrendering a bit, and maybe it could be because of Sarkozy's pressure, he proposes...

(you guess what the wonderful solution is...........??)

A vote on the vote!

He proposes militants to vote whether they want a new vote or not. ^^

We don't have Fillon reaction though. His condition was a new vote within 3 months to stay within UMP.
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tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2012, 09:44:47 AM »

More than ever...


Their point might just be to make the biggest tribute they could to...

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tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2012, 11:08:54 AM »

Copé has effectively officially announced he proposed a referendum about a new vote.

He said it could take place on December or January. Several UMP spoke about something through Internet.

He said that, indeed, Fillon camp would be associated to the organization of this referendum.

Fillon camp is debating the idea, and according to what's going on in the meeting (lol, twitter's everywhere apparently) they would be inclined to accept this referendum but would also impose some conditions. Official reaction waited.

Apparently it's really Sarkozy who pushed for it, and the idea of the referendum would even be his, before his intervention Copé was still resisting, even after the announcement of the new parliamentary group, Copé kinda admitted it in his speech.

So a Sarkozy miracle might have effectively taken place...

Meanwhile the mess had begun to touch the Sénat...

Apparently Fillonistes are majority there, and since this morning you had Larcher, Filloniste, trying to agitate the UMP group in order to clearly side Fillon. The underlying thing of this would be a fight with Gaudin, Copéiste, chief of the group, for the leading of this group. A debate will take place tomorrow there.

In the Assemblée, the Filloniste group seems to effectively be made of 74 MPs, they would have even signed for the creation of this group according to itélé.

Last news, Fillon would be asking for an external organization to hold this referendum, by Internet, no proxies, and before the end of this year.

They're finding a way??

Seems so.

Copé would have previously asked Fillon to withdraw his group though, no informations about that, Fillon official reaction is still waited though.
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tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2012, 11:22:49 AM »

Chartier gave the official reaction of Fillon camp, only about the group:

They're creating it. Fillon has been elected president of it, they gonna deposit the official status of it in the coming minutes...

But!

(lol...)

He said it is 'à titre conservatoire', it would mean that they could still withdraw it if a decision to directly hold the vote again happens. Which won't gonna happen.

He said they are still working on how to respond exactly to the proposal of referendum.
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tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2012, 11:36:30 AM »

...and the final official number of MPs is...

...68.

(so far Grin...nah, apparently, that's totally official)

...but...you want one more turn??

Here's for you!

Very last news:

Copé is moving to the Assemblée to tell Fillon that it's either the referendum or the group, you can't have both.

Sarkozy?? Where's Sarkozy??
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tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
France


« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2012, 11:45:34 AM »

OST of this soap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82BMXxdypWQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqXnpcye7hQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4VK9_CfOLQ

Maybe more to come, feel free to complete it.
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