SENATE BILL: The 'DREAM' Act (Law'd)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor: Scott Ben

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This is Atlasia, do you really think that the progressive paradise hasn't already "solved" this problem, Scott?


MasterJedi once told me that Ebowed gave amnesty to all the illegals, though I don't recall when or what bill he mentioned.


Oh yea, you got 24 hours to advocate for this.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Was amnesty afforded to illegal immigrants residing in Atlasia at the time, or amnesty to all illegal immigrants permanently?  Personally, as someone who feels that immigration laws need to be enforced, I oppose amnesty if it's unconditional, but I support a path to citizenship for those who demonstrate appropriate behavior.  That's why the bill I introduced is not intended to create an 'amnesty program' because it requires a lengthy and rigorous process to be eligible for the benefits.  However, if this is already a settled issue, I suppose I should withdraw it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Was amnesty afforded to illegal immigrants residing in Atlasia at the time, or amnesty to all illegal immigrants permanently?  Personally, as someone who feels that immigration laws need to be enforced, I oppose amnesty if it's unconditional, but I support a path to citizenship for those who demonstrate appropriate behavior.  That's why the bill I introduced is not intended to create an 'amnesty program' because it requires a lengthy and rigorous process to be eligible for the benefits.  However, if this is already a settled issue, I suppose I should withdraw it.

No, I wouldn't withdraw it based on a fading memory of second hand comment from three years ago about a bill that occured years before that even. I would suggest diving through the wiki and seeing if anything close to that is on there.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Neither of the two immigration-related bills on the wiki appear to grant blanket amnesty.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Do you have the links, so I can take a look at them. I fear this thing will be even slower on the wiki.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Immigration_Reform_Act_of_2007
https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/The_Illegal_Immigration_Act_of_2009

One of these bills might not be even be in effect for the fact that it appears to amend laws that aren't on the books in Atlasia, presumably because the text was copied from some US law.

[Ebowed]

All illegal immigrants arriving before 2007 were given an amnesty - https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Illegal_Immigrant_Act

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Why will this bill cost $25 billion?

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Why will this bill cost $25 billion?

It was more of an estimated cost than anything else.  The real DREAM Act was estimated to actually cut costs in the long run.  However, if all pre-2007 illegal immigrants were given amnesty, I'm no longer sure how this bill could be useful...

[Redalgo]

I propose this amendment in a patriotic display of solidarity with those seeking to become citizens:

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[HagridOfTheDeep]

And, to save Yankee time, I object.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Unfriendly.

I'm probably going to motion to table unless Yankee or the SoIA think this bill can accomplish something.

(And just for the record, Hagrid, you wouldn't object unless I considered the amendment friendly. )

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Scott, I would say it’s a very useful bill. Blanket amnesty for pre-2007 illegals would have sent the message that people could come over to this country illegally without any consequences whatsoever, so I expect there must be quite a few illegal immigrants in the Southwest by now.

In all seriousness though, the bill can’t hurt. I’d change the price tag though.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Scott, I would say it’s a very useful bill. Blanket amnesty for pre-2007 illegals would have sent the message that people could come over to this country illegally without any consequences whatsoever, so I expect there must be quite a few illegal immigrants in the Southwest by now.

In all seriousness though, the bill can’t hurt. I’d change the price tag though.

From my understanding, the pre-2007 illegals already have amnesty, so this bill wouldn't change that.  The only people this would affect are those who illegally migrated to the United States in the past five years, so I'm not sure if the benefits outweigh the costs.  The price tag will definitely be reduced, but I think the GM should give us an estimate.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

No, I understand. I just think you'll find there is a substantial enough number of new illegals to make it worth it. I'd also want to defer to the GM on this though.

[Redalgo]

This bill could be a very useful vehicle for allowing those who arrive here while still minors a fair opportunity to spend their adult lives in Atlasia - receiving all the rights and shouldering all the burdens that accompany the status of citizenship. Ideally, one would be a member of this nation not because of blood lines or on which side of an arbitrary political line they were born. Rather, it would be a matter of who pledges to sign on and adhere to the stipulations of our social contract.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would suggest seeing what the GM says about the costs before moving forward.

Giving Amnesty to illegals is one of the most insane proposals out there. I understand compassion but it is a cyclical, self-fullfilling prophecy. I understand compassion and I understand idealism, but it is essential to understand the reality of the situation. 1) Every country retains the sovereign rights to control what comes across their borders. 2) Choosing not to do so is just as much an assertive action as choosing to do so. 3) The impact of this decision not is a distortion on the economy. 4) This distortion is manifested in wage depression which hurts the working poor. 5) Nothing in 3 or 4 should be taken to mean that immigration hurts the economy, it helps, but it has to be controlled and regulated. 6) No amount of idealism will change the fact that there is a certain numerical threshold for the number of new immigrants that society can absorb at one time, and crossing that limit will do more to harm your idealistic vision then help it. That number is a mystery but I am not inclined to tempt fate. As much as believe in "country exceptionalism", such is limited to certain things and just like no country is exceptional enough to not have to pay its bills forever, no country can escape these limits in terms of population upheaval. That leads to 7) With just legal immigration you can bring in people within an acceptable range, and not risk that.

That said, if you put enough standards and qualifications, I can accept making exceptions for the children since they weren't the decision maker at the time. The standards must be tight, they must have to pass whatever schooling they are in and/or serve honorably for the entirety of their military service. Mass cheating of the system is indicative of a disturbing process whereby people who have cheated the system once (though not by their choice), continue to have no other desire but to cheat the system when the opporunity affords them. That shouldn't be rewarded. As for having no standards at all, see what I posted above. I just listened to "Crazy on You" by Heart, I can't think of a better description for what Redalgo's amendment is doing to us.

It may be in the morning before I can process the amendment.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Hostile
Status: Senators this amendment is now at vote, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

NAY!


Sorry, Redalgo, but someone has to protect the working people here, both domestic and immigrant actually.

Damn, these are pretty bad times for the Labor party, one of their Senators has gone Tea Party and the other is throwing workers under the bus.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Nay

[Franzl]

Aye

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Nay.

I will definitely withdraw support and sponsorship for the bill if this amendment passes.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Amendment:

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I figured this amendment would be necessary to discourage potential abuse of the system.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Nay