SENATE BILL: The 'DREAM' Act (Law'd)

[Franzl]

Aye

[Franzl]

It's absurd to base a residency permit on school grades at all. I'm not willing to make even further restrictions.

[Franzl]

There should be a GPA that's high enough so that beneficiaries have the incentive to not only get the education, but do well in getting the education so that they may go to a respectable college and not put themselves (and likely their families) in an endless cycle of poverty that will often result.  I can support a slight reduction in the GPA requirement, but not the removal of it.  Ben's amendment is friendly.

This is an unreasonable and discriminatory requirement. I may still vote for the final bill despite that, but I very strongly disagree.

[Franzl]

We need core requirements.  We can't have students getting Cs in Math, but As in Art.  There needs to be distinctions.

I see no reason to have such a requirement.

I objectt your amendment, FTR.

[Franzl]

I object.

[Franzl]

May I know the reasons?

I don't wish to restrict the residency rights to people before a certain date.

[Franzl]

NAY

[Franzl]

To explain myself:

I have no intention of changing my vote here. Just as I agree with birthright citizenship as a principle, for the same reason, I don't believe in punishing people who came to Atlasia as minors with their parents and are not responsible for the illegal behavior. (Now that I think about it, that does mean I would be willing to support an addition stating that they must come to Atlasia with parents or legal guardians to qualify, otherwise any minor could go across the border himself and claim residency status.)

[Franzl]

As previously stated, I object to the amendment.

[Franzl]

NAY

[Franzl]

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I propose this amendment as a substitute.

[Franzl]

I would appreciate some discussion on this. If the GPA is something you absolutely require (I think it's absurd, but most here seem to think differently), can we at least discuss the suspension rule? Are we seriously saying one suspension at any point as a teenager is something that should decide over whether that person can become a citizen of Atlasia? Seriously?

The medical examinations seem wrong to me...but the submission of biometric data is really wrong. For what purpose?

[Franzl]

My hard-line conservative stance on qualification for amnesty is that "it shouldn't be simple." Maybe that's heartless, but this is a huge privilege to extend, and I'm kind of surprised I'm even at the table at all. I really think there should be a general GPA requirement. I'm not against the "no-suspensions" rule. I have little opinion on medical requirements, but I'm not against them as an additional hoop to jump through.

We shouldn't be creating hoops that people need to jump through. Any restrictions we decide on should only serve legitimate interests.

Why do we allow birthright citizenship for people born in this country (irrespective of the legal status of their parents), but if they're brought into Atlasia when they're 2 years old, we deny them any chance at citizenship if they got suspended from school once and have a 2.9 GPA in high school. And then we force them to submit biometric information as an "additional hoop to jump through"? You think this is alright?

[Franzl]

Nothing is preventing them from going back home and getting in line the way they were supposed to. Like I said, I'm not against the "no-suspension" rule. And I phrased it that way on purpose: If it was removed, I would probably still vote for the legislation. I'm just not going to be the one to amend the bill. Because yes, I do think it's all right.

I do still think there should be a base level of academic achievement.

Soon we'll get parents bringing children over to Atlasia just because they know the kids will get amnesty. We can't reward that, whether the children asked for it or not. The children have their say in the matter by working towards the academic standards outlined in the bill.

I still don't see how this is consistent with the principle of birthright citizenship. Can't a woman cross the border to give birth to her child so that the child will automatically not only receive a residency permit but citizenship?

If you're against granting citizenship based on place of birth, than you are at least consistent, even though I think it's bad policy

[Franzl]

Franzl, did you go back and edit your amendment to remove the strikethrough for the GPA requirements? I could've sworn the GPA requirement was crossed out when I first read it.

As it stands now though, I can probably support your amended version of the bill.

Yes, I did. I still support eliminating the GPA requirements, but I doubt a majority would agree.

[Franzl]

I would rather abolish it entirely, but I'll take the reduction.

[Franzl]

AYE

[Franzl]

AYE, as it's certainly better than nothing. I would prefer if we forced people to jump through fewer hoops....but alright.

[Franzl]

AYE

[Franzl]

Also changing my vote to ABSTAIN.