SENATE BILL: The 'DREAM' Act (Law'd)

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Why will this bill cost $25 billion?

[HagridOfTheDeep]

And, to save Yankee time, I object.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Scott, I would say it’s a very useful bill. Blanket amnesty for pre-2007 illegals would have sent the message that people could come over to this country illegally without any consequences whatsoever, so I expect there must be quite a few illegal immigrants in the Southwest by now.

In all seriousness though, the bill can’t hurt. I’d change the price tag though.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

No, I understand. I just think you'll find there is a substantial enough number of new illegals to make it worth it. I'd also want to defer to the GM on this though.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Nay

[HagridOfTheDeep]

It's pretty vague. High schools have core history classes and optional history classes. This language would not account for the fact that one student might take one history class and another might take four. What if one student took a ton of math or science classes, which are often more difficult to get a high mark in?

It's harder to standardize the specifics. I think we should just keep a generic GPA requirement.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

That would translate into the general GPA. By the same token, we don't want to be punishing students who want to specialize in certain areas. As long as they have their math prerequesites, what's wrong with taking art?

The problem is, regions will have their own core requirements. Schools will offer different classes. How do we standardize this in a fair way? I don't think we can.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Aye

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Nay

Scott pretty clearly outlined the reasons for my objection. I've mentioned them before. I just can't support an overly complex set of criteria that favours students choosing to tailor their coursework to a certain field of study. I think there should definitely be a GPA requirement, but we can't delve into the exact specifics of what their high school career should look like. I could understand mandating a certain level of achievement in English courses, but that's about it.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Sorry for my lack of discussion on educational standards, but I just don't think the specifics are necessary. I'm not sure on the equivalent in the United Stat—ahem, Atlasia—but here, our provincial Ministries of Education set the necessary coursework for students. Every student in Ontario must take English through grade 12. Every student must take math through grade 11. Every student must take science through grade 10. I figure the "Ministry" requirements for graduation in the Atlasian regions are good enough benchmarks for our illegals. The general GPA requirement will ensure that we're extending this bill to hardworking students.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

My hard-line conservative stance on qualification for amnesty is that "it shouldn't be simple." Maybe that's heartless, but this is a huge privilege to extend, and I'm kind of surprised I'm even at the table at all. I really think there should be a general GPA requirement. I'm not against the "no-suspensions" rule. I have little opinion on medical requirements, but I'm not against them as an additional hoop to jump through.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Nothing is preventing them from going back home and getting in line the way they were supposed to. Like I said, I'm not against the "no-suspension" rule. And I phrased it that way on purpose: If it was removed, I would probably still vote for the legislation. I'm just not going to be the one to amend the bill. Because yes, I do think it's all right.

I do still think there should be a base level of academic achievement.

Soon we'll get parents bringing children over to Atlasia just because they know the kids will get amnesty. We can't reward that, whether the children asked for it or not. The children have their say in the matter by working towards the academic standards outlined in the bill.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Franzl, did you go back and edit your amendment to remove the strikethrough for the GPA requirements? I could've sworn the GPA requirement was crossed out when I first read it.

As it stands now though, I can probably support your amended version of the bill.

Also, no objection on Yankee's amendment.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

All right, lol. Just making sure I wasn't going insane.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Nay

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I'm not sure where I stand now that this bill has gotten closer to unconditional amnesty. I'll drop in before the vote closes with my final verdict.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Aye

Not sure if it's too late. If it is, my apologies.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

The senate reached a compromise that managed to garner "aye" votes from nine out of ten senators. Apparently this compromise means very little.

If the bill gets vetoed, as I suspect it will, I urge the sponsor to move for a veto override. Either way, I cannot support the president's alternate bill.

I'm also unsure about what you mean, Scott.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

That is correct.

Hopefully the Senate can pass my proposed compromise bill.

The senate reached a compromise that managed to garner "aye" votes from nine out of ten senators. Apparently this compromise means very little.

I know thinking has always been your strong suit, so consider me surprised to see this sort of post from you, but this compromise I've proposed is more likely to get that Nay voter on board. I'm reaching out to build consensus here and you're just continuing to throw around attacks to amuse yourself.

Yes, Mr. Wonderful, and your so-called "compromise" is certainly going to lose at least one vote anyway. So instead of appreciating the decision the senate came to, you'd rather have us jump through bureaucratic hoops for a result that will at best include the same number of ayes that it recieved in the first place. And, quite frankly, I don't think that best case scenario is all that likely. So congrats on your selfless compromise.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

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Well, you seemed very "considered" with senate consensus just a few minutes ago when you said this:

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Anyhow, I love that you're debating the merits of the GPA requirement now instead of when we were all actually talking about this issue. Your opinion would've been much more welcome then. Instead, you're stirring up controversy at the last minute when it could have easily been avoided. Do you really get off on conflict this much? Or are you actually just this bad at working with others?

Yankee will hopefully turn up soon. I'm not voting on a re-draft until he disseminates what's gone on here. I will vote against it.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Nay

This nay also comes with a series of underlying expletives directed at the president.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I know we should be voting on the merits of the re-draft itself, but there's definitely an elephant in the room here. What we decide with this vote will determine whether we validate or condemn Napoleon's recent attitude. If you ask me, there's no way we should send the message that his recent actions have been okay.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

So what's the verdict?

[HagridOfTheDeep]

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Unless Nathan decides to let things play out as they will... Here's hoping.