most unelectable potential nominee?

[Moooooo]

Highest approval rating of any sitting Senator

In Pennsylvania or the entire country?

[Keystone Phil]

So wait, Kerry would do better in Ohio against Santorum... a true social populist, than he did against Bush.  It is to laugh.

With someone like bayh as his VP he would

And with someone like Bill Owens on the GOP ticket, Santorum wins CO. Throw out Smash's map...

[Jake]

So wait, Kerry would do better in Ohio against Santorum... a true social populist, than he did against Bush.  It is to laugh.

With someone like bayh as his VP he would

We saw how Edwards helped Kerry win all those southern states right.  Wait, wrong.

[Keystone Phil]

So wait, Kerry would do better in Ohio against Santorum... a true social populist, than he did against Bush.  It is to laugh.

With someone like bayh as his VP he would

We saw how Edwards helped Kerry win all those southern states right.  Wait, wrong.

No, no! Let Smash have his way with the VP guessing game. Then we guess Santorum/Owens, and Santorum wins CO and the Presidency.

Start making some new maps, Smash.

[Smash255]

So wait, Kerry would do better in Ohio against Santorum... a true social populist, than he did against Bush.  It is to laugh.

With someone like bayh as his VP he would

And with someone like Bill Owens on the GOP ticket, Santorum wins CO. Throw out Smash's map...

Not so sure about that.  CO is trending Dem and a libertarian leaning state.  His individual rights comments will really hurt him there possibly so bad that Owens can't save him

[Keystone Phil]

So wait, Kerry would do better in Ohio against Santorum... a true social populist, than he did against Bush.  It is to laugh.

With someone like bayh as his VP he would

And with someone like Bill Owens on the GOP ticket, Santorum wins CO. Throw out Smash's map...

Not so sure about that.  CO is trending Dem and a libertarian leaning state.  His individual rights comments will really hurt him there possibly so bad that Owens can't save him

CO is trending Dem but still a Republican state and Owens is pretty popular there. But if you want to play that game, Edwards was supposed to give Ohio to Kerry. How'd that work out?

[12th Doctor]

Highest approval rating of any sitting Senator

In Pennsylvania or the entire country?

He has the highest approval rating amounst his constituents of any Senator in the country.

[Smash255]

Highest approval rating of any sitting Senator

In Pennsylvania or the entire country?

He has the highest approval rating amounst his constituents of any Senator in the country.

thats wrong.  Last time I saw his approval among Republicans was in the 70's.  Schumer's approval among Dems in NY is in the 80's  (65 overall)

[12th Doctor]

Highest approval rating of any sitting Senator

In Pennsylvania or the entire country?

He has the highest approval rating amounst his constituents of any Senator in the country.

thats wrong.  Last time I saw his approval among Republicans was in the 70's.  Schumer's approval among Dems in NY is in the 80's  (65 overall)

No, I mean, that his approval rating among the people of his state.  It is pretty sad that you consider "constituents" to be reflective only of what party you represent.

Perhapes that's why you don't win elections.

[Smash255]

Highest approval rating of any sitting Senator

In Pennsylvania or the entire country?

He has the highest approval rating amounst his constituents of any Senator in the country.

thats wrong.  Last time I saw his approval among Republicans was in the 70's.  Schumer's approval among Dems in NY is in the 80's  (65 overall)

No, I mean, that his approval rating amoung the people of his state.  It is pretty sad that you consider "constituents" to be reflective only of what party you represent.

I don't, but you said highest in the nation.  The six month old poll Keystone likes to refer to so much has Santorum's approval in the mid 50's, thats the highest of either PA senator, but FAR from the highest of any senator in their state

[12th Doctor]

Highest approval rating of any sitting Senator

In Pennsylvania or the entire country?

He has the highest approval rating amounst his constituents of any Senator in the country.

thats wrong.  Last time I saw his approval among Republicans was in the 70's.  Schumer's approval among Dems in NY is in the 80's  (65 overall)

No, I mean, that his approval rating amoung the people of his state.  It is pretty sad that you consider "constituents" to be reflective only of what party you represent.

I don't, but you said highest in the nation.  The six month old poll Keystone likes to refer to so much has Santorum's approval in the mid 50's, thats the highest of either PA senator, but FAR from the highest of any senator in their state

You might be right about Shumer, but have you looked at other polls?  Generally, Senators are either unknown or unliked.

The poll for Chucky might have been among those who knew who he was, whereas the Santorum poll was a general population sample.  Those who conducted the study found it amazing that so many people were able to identify Santorum without any prompting... I think something like 70% of the respondants.

Typically, in a poll, they throw out those who cannot identify the individual.

[Smash255]

Highest approval rating of any sitting Senator

In Pennsylvania or the entire country?

He has the highest approval rating amounst his constituents of any Senator in the country.

thats wrong.  Last time I saw his approval among Republicans was in the 70's.  Schumer's approval among Dems in NY is in the 80's  (65 overall)

No, I mean, that his approval rating amoung the people of his state.  It is pretty sad that you consider "constituents" to be reflective only of what party you represent.

I don't, but you said highest in the nation.  The six month old poll Keystone likes to refer to so much has Santorum's approval in the mid 50's, thats the highest of either PA senator, but FAR from the highest of any senator in their state

You might be right about Shumer, but have you looked at other polls?  Generally, Senators are either unknown or unliked.

The poll for Chucky might have been among those who knew who he was, whereas the Santorum poll was a general population sample.  Those who conducted the study found it amazing that so many people were able to identify Santorum without any prompting... I think something like 70% of the respondants.

Typically, in a poll, they throw out those who cannot identify the individual.

i think the poll you are referring to was of REPUBLICANS not the general population sample, I do remember seeing a poll of 70 something 5 among Republicans and considering the fact Keystone keeps bringing up the August poll that showed his approval @ 55%, we all know if their was a poll as you suggest of 70% of the population Keystone would have posted it 500 times by now  For the record both Clinton & Schumer have approval ratings in the 60's

[12th Doctor]

Highest approval rating of any sitting Senator

In Pennsylvania or the entire country?

He has the highest approval rating amounst his constituents of any Senator in the country.

thats wrong.  Last time I saw his approval among Republicans was in the 70's.  Schumer's approval among Dems in NY is in the 80's  (65 overall)

No, I mean, that his approval rating amoung the people of his state.  It is pretty sad that you consider "constituents" to be reflective only of what party you represent.

I don't, but you said highest in the nation.  The six month old poll Keystone likes to refer to so much has Santorum's approval in the mid 50's, thats the highest of either PA senator, but FAR from the highest of any senator in their state

You might be right about Shumer, but have you looked at other polls?  Generally, Senators are either unknown or unliked.

The poll for Chucky might have been among those who knew who he was, whereas the Santorum poll was a general population sample.  Those who conducted the study found it amazing that so many people were able to identify Santorum without any prompting... I think something like 70% of the respondants.

Typically, in a poll, they throw out those who cannot identify the individual.

i think the poll you are referring to was of REPUBLICANS not the general population sample, I do remember seeing a poll of 70 something 5 among Republicans and considering the fact Keystone keeps bringing up the August poll that showed his approval @ 55%, we all know if their was a poll as you suggest of 70% of the population Keystone would have posted it 500 times by now  For the record both Clinton & Schumer have approval ratings in the 60's

I get the felling that you are not really reading my posts.

1) The poll was among the general population.

2) 70% did not say that they supported Santorum, merely that they knew of him.  That is huge, when you consider that the average name recongnition for a Senator is about 55%.

3) The poll did not throw out those who were not aware of Santorum, like most polls do, thus his approval rating among the general population was, indeed, 56%.

4) There was a Republicans only poll attached to that, but that is not the one I am talking about.

[Keystone Phil]

Highest approval rating of any sitting Senator

In Pennsylvania or the entire country?

He has the highest approval rating amounst his constituents of any Senator in the country.

thats wrong.  Last time I saw his approval among Republicans was in the 70's.  Schumer's approval among Dems in NY is in the 80's  (65 overall)

No, I mean, that his approval rating amoung the people of his state.  It is pretty sad that you consider "constituents" to be reflective only of what party you represent.

I don't, but you said highest in the nation.  The six month old poll Keystone likes to refer to so much has Santorum's approval in the mid 50's, thats the highest of either PA senator, but FAR from the highest of any senator in their state

You might be right about Shumer, but have you looked at other polls?  Generally, Senators are either unknown or unliked.

The poll for Chucky might have been among those who knew who he was, whereas the Santorum poll was a general population sample.  Those who conducted the study found it amazing that so many people were able to identify Santorum without any prompting... I think something like 70% of the respondants.

Typically, in a poll, they throw out those who cannot identify the individual.

i think the poll you are referring to was of REPUBLICANS not the general population sample, I do remember seeing a poll of 70 something 5 among Republicans and considering the fact Keystone keeps bringing up the August poll that showed his approval @ 55%, we all know if their was a poll as you suggest of 70% of the population Keystone would have posted it 500 times by now  For the record both Clinton & Schumer have approval ratings in the 60's

And if there was a poll with Santorum with 70% approval rating, what's your point about me posting it about 500 times?

The probably with most Santorum haters, especially you, is that you fail to acknowledge that the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania APPROVE OF THE JOB RICK SANTORUM IS DOING AS A UNITED STATES SENATOR. You let your own dislike for the man cloud your analysis of Santorum's campaigns.

This is for every Santorum-hating Democrat (or Republican): Rick Santorum will be easily re-elected if Bob Casey, Jr. doesn't run. I'd say about a 6 point win for Santorum if he runs against Hoeffel, maybe alittle more against Hafer. You might not like him but the important thing is that a majority of people in PA like him so to sum it up in three words, Get over it.

[Smash255]

Highest approval rating of any sitting Senator

In Pennsylvania or the entire country?

He has the highest approval rating amounst his constituents of any Senator in the country.

thats wrong.  Last time I saw his approval among Republicans was in the 70's.  Schumer's approval among Dems in NY is in the 80's  (65 overall)

No, I mean, that his approval rating amoung the people of his state.  It is pretty sad that you consider "constituents" to be reflective only of what party you represent.

I don't, but you said highest in the nation.  The six month old poll Keystone likes to refer to so much has Santorum's approval in the mid 50's, thats the highest of either PA senator, but FAR from the highest of any senator in their state

You might be right about Shumer, but have you looked at other polls?  Generally, Senators are either unknown or unliked.

The poll for Chucky might have been among those who knew who he was, whereas the Santorum poll was a general population sample.  Those who conducted the study found it amazing that so many people were able to identify Santorum without any prompting... I think something like 70% of the respondants.

Typically, in a poll, they throw out those who cannot identify the individual.

i think the poll you are referring to was of REPUBLICANS not the general population sample, I do remember seeing a poll of 70 something 5 among Republicans and considering the fact Keystone keeps bringing up the August poll that showed his approval @ 55%, we all know if their was a poll as you suggest of 70% of the population Keystone would have posted it 500 times by now  For the record both Clinton & Schumer have approval ratings in the 60's

I get the felling that you are not really reading my posts.

1) The poll was among the general population.

2) 70% did not say that they supported Santorum, merely that they knew of him.  That is huge, when you consider that the average name recongnition for a Senator is about 55%.

3) The poll did not throw out those who were not aware of Santorum, like most polls do, thus his approval rating among the general population was, indeed, 56%.

4) There was a Republicans only poll attached to that, but that is not the one I am talking about.

Well you still said that he ha the highest approval ratings of his consitutents of any senator in the country & thats false

[Smash255]

Highest approval rating of any sitting Senator

In Pennsylvania or the entire country?

He has the highest approval rating amounst his constituents of any Senator in the country.

thats wrong.  Last time I saw his approval among Republicans was in the 70's.  Schumer's approval among Dems in NY is in the 80's  (65 overall)

No, I mean, that his approval rating amoung the people of his state.  It is pretty sad that you consider "constituents" to be reflective only of what party you represent.

I don't, but you said highest in the nation.  The six month old poll Keystone likes to refer to so much has Santorum's approval in the mid 50's, thats the highest of either PA senator, but FAR from the highest of any senator in their state

You might be right about Shumer, but have you looked at other polls?  Generally, Senators are either unknown or unliked.

The poll for Chucky might have been among those who knew who he was, whereas the Santorum poll was a general population sample.  Those who conducted the study found it amazing that so many people were able to identify Santorum without any prompting... I think something like 70% of the respondants.

Typically, in a poll, they throw out those who cannot identify the individual.

i think the poll you are referring to was of REPUBLICANS not the general population sample, I do remember seeing a poll of 70 something 5 among Republicans and considering the fact Keystone keeps bringing up the August poll that showed his approval @ 55%, we all know if their was a poll as you suggest of 70% of the population Keystone would have posted it 500 times by now  For the record both Clinton & Schumer have approval ratings in the 60's

And if there was a poll with Santorum with 70% approval rating, what's your point about me posting it about 500 times?

The probably with most Santorum haters, especially you, is that you fail to acknowledge that the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania APPROVE OF THE JOB RICK SANTORUM IS DOING AS A UNITED STATES SENATOR. You let your own dislike for the man cloud your analysis of Santorum's campaigns.

This is for every Santorum-hating Democrat (or Republican): Rick Santorum will be easily re-elected if Bob Casey, Jr. doesn't run. I'd say about a 6 point win for Santorum if he runs against Hoeffel, maybe alittle more against Hafer. You might not like him but the important thing is that a majority of people in PA like him so to sum it up in three words, Get over it.

i mention the 500 times thing because when polls reach a certain age they tend to lose their meaning.  Granted their hasn't been a newer poll since, but you mention a 6 month old poll every chance you get.  the poll is 6 Months old.

[Keystone Phil]

Highest approval rating of any sitting Senator

In Pennsylvania or the entire country?

He has the highest approval rating amounst his constituents of any Senator in the country.

thats wrong.  Last time I saw his approval among Republicans was in the 70's.  Schumer's approval among Dems in NY is in the 80's  (65 overall)

No, I mean, that his approval rating amoung the people of his state.  It is pretty sad that you consider "constituents" to be reflective only of what party you represent.

I don't, but you said highest in the nation.  The six month old poll Keystone likes to refer to so much has Santorum's approval in the mid 50's, thats the highest of either PA senator, but FAR from the highest of any senator in their state

You might be right about Shumer, but have you looked at other polls?  Generally, Senators are either unknown or unliked.

The poll for Chucky might have been among those who knew who he was, whereas the Santorum poll was a general population sample.  Those who conducted the study found it amazing that so many people were able to identify Santorum without any prompting... I think something like 70% of the respondants.

Typically, in a poll, they throw out those who cannot identify the individual.

i think the poll you are referring to was of REPUBLICANS not the general population sample, I do remember seeing a poll of 70 something 5 among Republicans and considering the fact Keystone keeps bringing up the August poll that showed his approval @ 55%, we all know if their was a poll as you suggest of 70% of the population Keystone would have posted it 500 times by now  For the record both Clinton & Schumer have approval ratings in the 60's

And if there was a poll with Santorum with 70% approval rating, what's your point about me posting it about 500 times?

The probably with most Santorum haters, especially you, is that you fail to acknowledge that the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania APPROVE OF THE JOB RICK SANTORUM IS DOING AS A UNITED STATES SENATOR. You let your own dislike for the man cloud your analysis of Santorum's campaigns.

This is for every Santorum-hating Democrat (or Republican): Rick Santorum will be easily re-elected if Bob Casey, Jr. doesn't run. I'd say about a 6 point win for Santorum if he runs against Hoeffel, maybe alittle more against Hafer. You might not like him but the important thing is that a majority of people in PA like him so to sum it up in three words, Get over it.

i mention the 500 times thing because when polls reach a certain age they tend to lose their meaning.  Granted their hasn't been a newer poll since, but you mention a 6 month old poll every chance you get.  the poll is 6 Months old.

Atleast I base my arguments on something. danwxman cites some article that says Santorum's ratings are going down but they don't go into detail. My source is much better than that.

But let's say we throw out that poll. What do we base our arguments on? Would you like me to insist that Santorum will get 60% of the vote while you might argue that the Dem will crush him in the General? It makes no sense for me not to cite something of importance.

I just can't wait until they do their poll again. They seem to be starting up again in NJ and CT so Pennsylvania should be pretty soon. And when Santorum's numbers are still in the mid 50s with the probably the lowest disapproval numbers, I'll really enjoy danwxman and others that say Santorum is actually disliked here. Don't think your opinion is shared by Pennsylvania, my friend, because you'll be in for a big surprise.

[Smash255]

Highest approval rating of any sitting Senator

In Pennsylvania or the entire country?

He has the highest approval rating amounst his constituents of any Senator in the country.

thats wrong.  Last time I saw his approval among Republicans was in the 70's.  Schumer's approval among Dems in NY is in the 80's  (65 overall)

No, I mean, that his approval rating amoung the people of his state.  It is pretty sad that you consider "constituents" to be reflective only of what party you represent.

I don't, but you said highest in the nation.  The six month old poll Keystone likes to refer to so much has Santorum's approval in the mid 50's, thats the highest of either PA senator, but FAR from the highest of any senator in their state

You might be right about Shumer, but have you looked at other polls?  Generally, Senators are either unknown or unliked.

The poll for Chucky might have been among those who knew who he was, whereas the Santorum poll was a general population sample.  Those who conducted the study found it amazing that so many people were able to identify Santorum without any prompting... I think something like 70% of the respondants.

Typically, in a poll, they throw out those who cannot identify the individual.

i think the poll you are referring to was of REPUBLICANS not the general population sample, I do remember seeing a poll of 70 something 5 among Republicans and considering the fact Keystone keeps bringing up the August poll that showed his approval @ 55%, we all know if their was a poll as you suggest of 70% of the population Keystone would have posted it 500 times by now  For the record both Clinton & Schumer have approval ratings in the 60's

And if there was a poll with Santorum with 70% approval rating, what's your point about me posting it about 500 times?

The probably with most Santorum haters, especially you, is that you fail to acknowledge that the people of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania APPROVE OF THE JOB RICK SANTORUM IS DOING AS A UNITED STATES SENATOR. You let your own dislike for the man cloud your analysis of Santorum's campaigns.

This is for every Santorum-hating Democrat (or Republican): Rick Santorum will be easily re-elected if Bob Casey, Jr. doesn't run. I'd say about a 6 point win for Santorum if he runs against Hoeffel, maybe alittle more against Hafer. You might not like him but the important thing is that a majority of people in PA like him so to sum it up in three words, Get over it.

i mention the 500 times thing because when polls reach a certain age they tend to lose their meaning.  Granted their hasn't been a newer poll since, but you mention a 6 month old poll every chance you get.  the poll is 6 Months old.

Atleast I base my arguments on something. danwxman cites some article that says Santorum's ratings are going down but they don't go into detail. My source is much better than that.

But let's say we throw out that poll. What do we base our arguments on? Would you like me to insist that Santorum will get 60% of the vote while you might argue that the Dem will crush him in the General? It makes no sense for me not to cite something of importance.

I just can't wait until they do their poll again. They seem to be starting up again in NJ and CT so Pennsylvania should be pretty soon. And when Santorum's numbers are still in the mid 50s with the probably the lowest disapproval numbers, I'll really enjoy danwxman and others that say Santorum is actually disliked here. Don't think your opinion is shared by Pennsylvania, my friend, because you'll be in for a big surprise.

We will see what happens when the new poll #'s come out.  The reason I tend to think he will get crushed against some Dems and lose against most in a national electon is some of his comments especially individual rights comments will be like gas on a fire for the Dems and become a MAJOR campaign issue that it will be hard for Santorum to overcome.  Possibly on a state level he will overcome them, but I don't think he will on a national level running for President

[12th Doctor]

Your missing a point of mine, that I made twice.  Most polls throw out those who have no knowledge of the person mentioned, giving the approval, only among those who have heard of them.  The Santorum poll did not do this.  Did the Schumer poll do this? Because, personally, I doubt that 60% of the people in New York know who he is.

[Keystone Phil]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

And I'll state here, for the record, that if a new poll comes out showing Santorum down by a significant amount, I will accept that and will have no problem with you guys using that for your arguments. It doesn't mean that I think Santorum won't win but I'll accept that the polls aren't looking as good as they should.

On a national level, I really don't see a realistic Electoral situation (unless it was Bayh vs. Santorum) where Santorum would by likely to lose or lose by the big margins that some suggest.

[Smash255]

Your missing a point of mine, that I made twice.  Most polls throw out those who have no knowledge of the person mentioned, giving the approval, only among those who have heard of them.  The Santorum poll did not do this.  Did the Schumer poll do this? Because, personally, I doubt that 60% of the people in New York know who he is.

Schumer is VERY well known in nY.  I was actually wrong the poll was 69% approve 16% disapprove 15% don't know/NA  (I assume that don't know means they don't know who he is)

[Hitchabrut]

Republican - Hagel
Democratic - Kerry

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Two things:

1. Could certain Democrats accept that Santorum is not unelectable. I don't think he'd win nationally (although I don't think he'll run either) but please remember that before he was Senator he was the Congressman for one of the most Democratic districts in PA (the old PA-18: working class inner suburbs of Pittsburgh).

2. Could certain Republicans stop playing silly buggers with his approval and/or name recognition numbers.

That's all

[ian]

Well, for the Republicans, it would be Giuliani or Pataki.  But for the Democrats it would be Ted Kennedy (?), but Dems have way more bad choices than Republicans.

[Keystone Phil]

2. Could certain Republicans stop playing silly buggers with his approval and/or name recognition numbers.

We're just stating a few things that some Democrats refuse to pay attention to.