Obamacare is here to stay!

[Badger]

Calm down it works in Canada. You guys will be fine...

That's why people from all over the world come here for major medical procedures.
[/quote]

You think they come here so they can deal with our insurance system?? of course not. We have the greatest educational system and largest economy in the world, which in turn made our country the leader of medical technology and training. No private health insurance company contributed diddly to that.

If you believe that it's good enough for our system to welcome plutocrats from around the world, rather than ensurong universal access to this strong system, then that's your decision.

[Antonio the Sixth]

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That's why people from all over the world come here for major medical procedures.

Ugh, this is not a very promising first post...

[anvi]

That's why people from all over the world come here for major medical procedures.

Actually not.  There are lots of people who are traveling to other countries nowadays to have major procedures done because it costs less.  A lot of the people who do this are even company excs, and many companies subsidize such trips. There is now a submarket called "medical tourism," and it's some years old already.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/health/21patient.html?_r=0

http://www.imtj.com/articles/2009/how-many-americans-go-abroad-for-treatment-30016/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2048020/Medical-tourism-Why-Americans-going-abroad-surgery-save-money.html

Hell, if you had to pay completely out-of-pocket for a cat scan, you could actually get a better deal by buying an air ticket to Japan and getting one there than simply staying in the U.S.

[Likely Voter]

I wonder if Republicans think that they can run on repealing Obamacare as a campaign promise in 2016?    Maybe in the primary, but I dont see that as a viable general election position.

[Frodo]

House Speaker John Boehner apparently agrees. 

[5280]

House Speaker John Boehner apparently agrees.  

What a spineless coward Boehner is, he lost the fight and needs to go away like the dodo.  The guy needs to give up his position and give it to a better candidate in his party.

[Vosem]

I wonder if Republicans think that they can run on repealing Obamacare as a campaign promise in 2016?    Maybe in the primary, but I dont see that as a viable general election position.

In 1952, Taft ran an anti-New Deal campaign, and considering how unpopular Truman was at the time, had Eisenhower not thrown a spammer in the works he would likely have won, and then-Speaker of the House Joe Martin wasn't a big fan either. This was fifteen years later. The Great Society was accepted more immediately, but that really doesn't look like it's going to happen with Obamacare. I wouldn't be surprised if it were still an issue into the late '20s (assuming it doesn't die before then), though it does look safe at least until '16.

[Sbane]

House Speaker John Boehner apparently agrees. 

What a spineless coward Boehner is, he lost the fight and needs to go away like the dodo.  The guy needs to give up his position and give it to a better candidate in his party.

You are completely out of touch with reality. The people spoke on Tuesday and on the whole they want at least parts of Obamacare to stay as the law of the land. Only a quarter of Americans want the entire thing gone. Speaker Boehner is with that 75% and you are with the 25%. You guys have lost, get over it. Work on changing things within Obamacare but the whole thing isn't going anywhere.

[Silent Hunter]

Calm down it works in Canada. You guys will be fine...

That's why people from all over the world come here for major medical procedures.

You think they come here so they can deal with our insurance system?? of course not. We have the greatest educational system and largest economy in the world, which in turn made our country the leader of medical technology and training. No private health insurance company contributed diddly to that.

If you believe that it's good enough for our system to welcome plutocrats from around the world, rather than ensurong universal access to this strong system, then that's your decision.
[/quote]

It's not just plutocrats - it's frequently young children with rare diseases who have to raise the money to pay for the treatment. My local paper (the Romford Recorder) covers these cases regularly.

[Politico]

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And who is going to pay for it? The money simply isn't there. What happens when Social security and medicare go bankrupt?

Ben, you cannot reason with today's liberals. They have been brainwashed into believing the world only consists of benefits, not costs and benefits. They believe they can have perpetual excess consumption without matching production. They believe the world owes them a living. The list goes on and on. Hell, most of the people who voted for Obama would fail a financial literacy test. Many of them can barely read "Obama," let alone comprehend the concept of cost-benefit analysis.

It is not the fault of young people, though. They were brainwashed in the cradle and classroom, and most of them will remain brainwashed until they hit the grave. If you want to blame somebody, blame the National Education Association, communists in academia, Ted Kennedy for the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, and woeful parents.

[Wisconsin+17]

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Well, let's fight together for the next four years and continue preaching the 'gospel of common sense.'

Deal?

[Politico]

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Well, let's fight together for the next four years and continue preaching the 'gospel of common sense.'

Deal?

I am exhausted. I did everything possible to prevent this. I hate to say it, but that man in your signature has a lot to do with us only getting 44% of the female vote and therefore losing the election (those f'ing idiots in Indiana and Missouri, who shall forever remain unnamed, did not help). Between those f'ing idiots, Santorum and Christie, men who mean well but have no idea what they have caused, the GOP basically handed Obama four more years. And the country will probably never bounce back from this.

America's glory days are over. We're going down with a whimper, buddy, just like the Roman Empire. This election was our version of "300." The "people," the brainwashed and the instigators, have spoken, and now we're moving "forward" off a cliff.

It's over...it's over.

[Admiral Kizaru]

Obamacare will endure for decades to come, increasingly become an ingrained and popular aspect of American society, and President Obama will go down in history as one of the great presidents for implementing it.

That's the thing I find so amusing and ironic in all this.


The Republicans have labelled the The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) as "Obamacare" I guess to try and belittle it and insult the president. As we all know they've been very effective at this, so much so that nearly everyone refers to it as "Obamacare", but I two rather suspect that this will go on to become incredibly popular and a pillar of American society like Medicare and Medicaid that can't be touched. Thus essentially the Republicans have created a historic and popular legacy for the president that will stand the test of time - assuming people in 50 years we will still be calling it "Obamacare".

[Wisconsin+17]

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You still don't get it do you? You lost because you pissed us off.

I'll give you another chance.

Will you fight with us for another 4 years? Yes or no, Politico?

[Politico]

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You still don't get it do you? You lost because you pissed us off.

I'll give you another chance.

Will you fight with us for another 4 years? Yes or no, Politico?

Did those idiots in Indiana and Missouri lose because they pissed off social conservatives? Romney did not have to spend a penny in either state, both relatively conservative states, yet he won them both by comfortable margins. I strongly recommend reevaluating your position. It is fine to be socially conservative (I may have more Libertarian views with regards to tolerance of alternative lifestyles, very much a live and let live philosophy, but I personally live a very socially conservative lifestyle). However, that does not mean social conservatives need to speak their mind all of the time. That is the lesson to be learned from the 2012 debacles.

I told you what would happen if we only got 44% of the female vote. If Santorum had not ranted about contraceptives and dragged on the race, we could have ran the campaign we wanted to run. Instead Santorum got the ball rolling with this "war on women" BS. How in God's name did a Republican end up giving the Democrats that kind of ammo? And then those idiots in Indiana and Missouri? WTF was that? Even if you believe what they said, you keep it to yourself. You certainly don't say it on television. And then Chris Christie professed his love for Barack Obama days before the Election despite the fact FEMA was not doing its job? Screw him, and screw those goofballs in Indiana and Missouri who rightfully lost their previously guaranteed seats in the Senate.

[Franzl]

Thank God!

[Wisconsin+17]

Good to know party loyalty works only one way, Politico. You've been arguing for party loyalty every day for the last year, and now, you won't.

How does it feel to be a massive hypocrite?

[Mister Twister]

Politico, Ben Kenobi, please stop arguing. You are both right. BOTH of your candidates (Romney, Santorum) are losers that will never be anywhere close to a position of power.

[Niemeyerite]

BTW, Santorum would have won more than 44% of the female vote, IMHO. Probably 45-46%. Women like humans more than they like robots.

[Marnetmar]

Obamacare is far, far, far from ideal. I hope that there are more changes made to make it more comprehensive and effective.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

Calm down it works in Canada. You guys will be fine...

That's why people from all over the world come here for major medical procedures.

You think they come here so they can deal with our insurance system?? of course not. We have the greatest educational system and largest economy in the world, which in turn made our country the leader of medical technology and training. No private health insurance company contributed diddly to that.

If you believe that it's good enough for our system to welcome plutocrats from around the world, rather than ensurong universal access to this strong system, then that's your decision.
[/quote]

The US system wouldn't be very strong if it was "universal", lol

It's also worth mentioning that variations of what amount to this exact argument were used to justify Medicare and Medicaid, both of which are bankrupting the US and have driven up medical costs significantly. I'm not seeing the logic here.

>US Healthcare is fairly cheap, affordable, and bought out of pocket except in rare circumstances (1960)

>Laws are passed to make it even more cheap and affordable to the common man (1964)

>US Healthcare is beginning to become absurdly expensive, and mostly paid for by insurance due to a pile of regulations, incentives, and mandates, not to mention new government programs (1970s-90s)

>Laws are passed to make it even more cheap and affordable to the common man (1989)

>US Healthcare's costs are extortionate, paying for things out of pocket is nigh impossible without a personal relationship with the doctors again due to regulations, incentives, mandates and programs (2000s)

>Laws are passed to make it even more cheap and affordable to the common man (2008)

>

Interesting thesis, Mr. Calhoun, but I don't think it's constitutional grounds are very solid.

Seems solid enough for several states to have already done so. Also, if Obamacare is good, then it shouldn't need the non-compliant states anyway since it's merit will be proven elsewhere.

Unless, of course, you have figured out that universalized healthcare is a damn mess and the non-Obamacare states would make the Obamacare states look backwards. In which case I wonder why you would support Obamacare at all.

[The Free North]

Sad news.


As a doctor, I have true regrets for the future patients of America knowing the poor care they are getting. Anyone who wants a taste, just look at the disaster setting up for retinal treatment and Avastin/Lucentis.


Politicians should not run medicine, we do not have a history of people dying in the streets in america. Again, I am going to be out of this profession in a few years, 20+ years has been enough for me, but I fear that the system I know will be a dream in the future hell that will be medicine.

[LastVoter]

Santorum would have done better than better than Romney, and that's a fact Politico. He would have turned out the racist white working class in Ohio like no other. But not to get your hopes up Ben Kenobi, he would have still lost Virginia. To win this election Republicans needed a perfect candidate who could microtarget the hate to different white voters in different states, crazy religious sh**t to evangelicals, xenophobia and racism to the non-religious resentful base, and at the same time not let the message spill over to the moderates in urban states. This person would have to have Reagan's charisma, Bush's ability to deceive, and Nixon's scheming powers.

[anvi]

Ben, you cannot reason with today's liberals. They have been brainwashed into believing the world only consists of benefits, not costs and benefits...Hell, most of the people who voted for Obama would fail a financial literacy test. Many of them can barely read "Obama," let alone comprehend the concept of cost-benefit analysis.

Well, if you're going to bring up costs, benefits and financial literacy again, I'll respond with a variation of what I've said before.  If the populous as a whole is a bit too ignorant about financing and costs weighed against benefits, I'd lay the blame for that more at the feet of all-too-easy credit, from credit cards to mortgage loans, than I would on social insurance programs.  Furthermore, your posts on this forum indicate to me that you want the costs of debt reduction to fall exclusively on the shoulders of those who receive government transfer payments, both individuals and states, as well as on the shoulders of government employees.  You don't want any of those costs to knock at the door of business owners, corporate managers or the financial industry. 

In the aftermath of the election, Republicans are continually ringing their hands about the possibility that it was the packaging and delivery of their message that failed to win voters over, rather than the content of that message, and how it proposed to met out the costs of our current national course.  But I don't think the packaging was the problem.  I think the voters heard you, and heard the way you wanted to proportion costs and benefits, and understood it just fine.  Your guy didn't lose because your side failed to communicate, nor because the voters have no conception of what a cost is, nor because the voters were uniformly brainwashed.  You lost because a majority of them don't agree with you about your cost-benefit priorities.  Maybe your priorities about how to met out costs and benefits need to be reexamined.  I'd suggest to you that it's a least worth thinking about.   

[courts]

Indeed. The most popular part of the bill are about to be implemented. Once people start getting used to Obamacare, and see its benefits in their everyday life, it'll become untouchable like Medicare and Social Security.

define 'untouchable.' it seems almost assured that the 'grand bargain' will take place given the influence of wall street, gop control and obama's own repeated statements on the subject. we might not see overt voucherization or "private-public partnerships" but hikes to things like age of benefits are a near inevitability now. not to mention the absolutely brutal austerity we're already seeing in terms of medicaid benefit cuts in multiple states. i would like more than almost anyone here to see a real, single payer system enacted or at least obama to prove me wrong in terms of enacting a public option. but i'm really just not seeing it. if it didn't happen in 2009-2011 i don't see how it could happen before 2015 even if congress does go through another d-wave.