Reaganfan's Reaction
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Author Topic: Reaganfan's Reaction  (Read 8186 times)
Reaganfan
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« on: November 15, 2012, 03:04:03 AM »

My official prediction of the 2012 Presidential Election was a close race with President Obama coming out as the victor. My official prediction was 74.1% accurate, not as accurate as my 83.0% accuracy during the 2004 Presidential race. That year, I only failed to predict John Kerry's winning Wisconsin's 10 electoral votes, which I thought would slip to President Bush when in actuality George Bush came up 11,384 votes short.

So, were the results of Obama vs. Romney a shock to me? Not at all. As a matter of fact, I foresaw Romney's pending defeat, and even sent a solemn text message to our very own Keystone Phil around 11:30pm that night saying, "Romney needs to concede, Now." to which Phil seemed surprised. I don't know why. I am NOT a hack. I am a straight shooter. I tell it the way it is. If you can understand that about me, then you can begin to respect my predictions and analysis of elections and current event topics.

Since the election, Democrats have been gloating about their new lock on the electoral college, and how Republicans are a hopeless party doomed to repeat failure over the coming election cycles. In some respects, they are correct. Republicans, whether it be the anti-Obama voters, the Tea Party, the establishment, the evangelicals or even the "Chick-fil-A" crowd, purely and simply did not turn out in the numbers many, even myself, had anticipated. The fact that John McCain's disastrous campaign which culminated with a terrible economic collapse with the incumbent party in the White House with a 30% or lower approval rating received a greater share of popular votes than Governor Mitt Romney shows how many people purely and simply stayed home.

Now, before we begin the recrimination, let me make clear that Governor Romney, who I enthusiastically supported and persuaded several Obama 2008 voters and/or first time voters to cast their ballots for, was not at all my first choice for the nomination. As a matter of fact, I voted for Senator Rick Santorum in the Ohio primary. As did my father. I also would tend to suspect our very own Keystone Phil cast his Pennsylvania primary ballot for Senator Santorum. My choices became narrower and narrower as the primary race went on. The CEO of Godfather's Pizza with infidelity problems? NO. A congresswoman from Minnesota who had solid conservative credentials but came across too extreme for the mainstream and sort-of Palin-esque? NO. The Governor of Texas with a solid conservative record? YES...until you find out that he's more Bruce Dern than John Wayne. The former Speaker of the House of Representatives with a tarnished past who has an ego big enough for several planets to orbit? NO. The former Governor of Massachusetts who can be painted as out of touch and has changed positions multiple times? NO.

With Senator Santorum, I found that his one major flaw was that he was soundly defeated for re-election during the Democratic tidal wave of 2006 in the Democrat-leaning state of Pennsylvania. Losing an election is hardly as terrible as flip-flopping or a tarnished personal problem. Indeed, I came to the same conclusion that my father did. As we both walked out of the voting booth on the afternoon of the Ohio Primary, we confided in each other that we had voted for Santorum to "contrast better" with Barack Obama. That lack of contrast between Obama and Romney, severely evident in the third and final Presidential debate, was critical to have in a society which may be more open to a semi-socialistic viewpoint that the Obama/Biden 2012 campaign pushed forward during this election.

Aaron Goldstein, the Canadian-born Socialist-turned Conservative writer for the American Spectator wrote an outstanding article in the aftermath of the Obama/Romney election in which he basically says that 2012 was the 1980 election all over again...except America has drastically changed in the 32 years since the start of the big-hair punk rock decade.



In the 1980s, American homes were filled week after week with television shows glorifying conservatism. You had "Family Ties", which aired on NBC from 1982 to 1989. The backdrop of the hit sitcom was that Michael J. Fox's idealistic young character Alex P. Keaton, was a Nixon and Reagan-loving conservative having to deal with his 1960s style hippie parents in their home in the suburbs of Columbus, Ohio. One episode in particular was fitting for the times when Mallory Keaton introduced her male friend, "Dad...Alex...this is Jamie Carter" to which Alex leapt into his fathers arms. "Don't worry Alex, she said Jamie Carter...not Jimmy", replied the father, to the audience's delight. Another memorable quote that comes to mind was Alex talking about finding a girl to date and telling his mother that he was going to have to "pick a date off the girl tree." Despondent, she said, "ALEX! The girl tree?" to which he sarcastically replied, "Oh...sorry mom. The woman tree." Again, there was no claim of a fictional "War on Women" or any outcry. In fact, one could claim that the audience, which by the way included the President of the United States, would applaud Alex P. Keaton's sarcastic tone against his liberal mother.

Another popular show, "The A-Team" basically made the protagonists of the show people who could do jobs that the Government was incapable of doing, and the Government was always trying to stop them. This also fit the bill for the Reagan Era's anti-government conservatism.

But the conservatism wasn't always at liberal expense. You would have sitcoms that would air "Very Special Episodes" about the dangers of drugs, drinking and other pressing social issues without resorting to liberalism. Hell, even I myself, born in 1988, remember watching "Just Say No" VHS tapes in grade school a decade after they were made, with Ronald and Nancy Reagan telling kids to say no to drugs and terrifying PSA commercials aired during my Saturday Morning cartoons featuring the dangers of drug use. You remember the PSAs. "Hey Tommy, look what I've got..." as a child held a handful of small white rolled joints with sinister music in the background. Talk about ruining your Saturday bowl of Fruit Loops.

Skip forward nearly 20 years and you now have children watching prime time television shows that glorify drug use. You even have some Americans voting to legalize it. In many ways, it is a victory of liberalism and a nightmare for traditional Americans.

You also, as Aaron Goldstein noted, had many middle aged Americans who grew up under the post-World War II cloud of communism. Japan, Korea, Vietnam, the good old days of the 1950s replaced by the disillusionment of the radical 1960s and 1970s...all the while the Soviet Union was showing off it's military strength. As this was happening, the 20 year old guy firing at German soldiers on French beaches was suddenly a 56 year old American who saw a likable but incompetent President fumbling the ball with the Soviets, having American hostages in Iran, and watching the country they had fought for radically change before their eyes. They were fed up. It didn't matter how likable President Carter was. It didn't matter how good of a speech he might give. The foreign policy failures and the economic recession were simply unacceptable. Nowadays, people were willing to shrug, nod their heads and say, "Oh well, let's keep Barack". It is still difficult to comprehend the change in attitude. It may be a simple case of the 1980 America having more pride than the 2012 America.

As stated earlier, this was the 1980 election. The problem was, it isn't 1980. If it was 1980, and Barack Obama was President and Mitt Romney were the Republican nominee, Romney would have won in a Reagan-style landslide. One important factor often overlooked is that while many people claim conservatism had a firm hold on the American electorate in the eighties, one thing is often forgotten...California. The Republican Party is all but dissolved in the state of California now, but remember, this was a state that Richard Nixon hailed from, and a state from which Ronald Reagan governed. This state held 45 electoral votes in 1972, 1976 and 1980 which were firmly in the Republican column. Had Mitt Romney won California, he would have been just nine votes shy of the White House. But he likely would have won anyways due to the 1980-GOP strongholds of New Jersey, Vermont and Connecticut...states that were Obama Country this year. Also, in 1980, virtually the entire country was contested. You had Reagan campaigning from Michigan to Washington to New York to Florida. In 2012, it basically came down to a handful of states. Most importantly in 2012, there were many less people voting than who voted in elections thirty years ago.

Between Obama and Romney in the state of Ohio, 5,274,423 people cast ballots for either of the two men. Between Carter and Reagan in 1980, 3,958,959 Ohioans cast their ballots for the two men. That's a difference of 1,315,464 people voting in Ohio in 1980 versus 2012. Of course, in 32 years, many things change but one of them is higher turnout for obvious reasons. In 1980, you might see a TV ad for Reagan or hear a radio ad for Carter, perhaps read a newspaper endorsement and hear about the campaign every night on local and national news. But this year, you can't even click on YouTube to listen to a song or watch a video without an ad for the candidates popping up. You can't go onto a website to find school supplies for your children without having an Obama-Biden ad pop up, or do to a fishing website and have an automatic talking Romney on your screen. It's everywhere. For those who have followed politics most of our lives as if it were in the bloodstream, we would vote no matter what. However, in the 1980 electorate...or even as recently as the 2000 electorate...many average American citizens simply didn't care. Nowadays, they want to be involved. Even if they have no idea the difference between being a Governor in your state capitol or being a Senator in Washington, D.C. representing your state, they still want their voices to be heard. That's America. That's the American way.

Nevertheless, conservatism lives on. We will be back. I'm glad because in my heart, I know it's right. I know traditional America lives on. I may not fit in with many my age, but I know what I believe. Why that is, I'll never know. Perhaps...just perhaps... I was raised too similar to the children of half a century ago.



God Bless America
Reaganfan
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LastVoter
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2012, 03:19:18 AM »

tl; dr
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jfern
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2012, 03:47:44 AM »

In the 1980s, American homes were filled week after week with television shows glorifying conservatism. You had "Family Ties", which aired on NBC from 1982 to 1989. The backdrop of the hit sitcom was that Michael J. Fox's idealistic young character Alex P. Keaton, was a Nixon and Reagan-loving conservative having to deal with his 1960s style hippie parents in their home in the suburbs of Columbus, Ohio. One episode in particular was fitting for the times when Mallory Keaton introduced her male friend, "Dad...Alex...this is Jamie Carter" to which Alex leapt into his fathers arms. "Don't worry Alex, she said Jamie Carter...not Jimmy", replied the father, to the audience's delight. Another memorable quote that comes to mind was Alex talking about finding a girl to date and telling his mother that he was going to have to "pick a date off the girl tree." Despondent, she said, "ALEX! The girl tree?" to which he sarcastically replied, "Oh...sorry mom. The woman tree." Again, there was no claim of a fictional "War on Women" or any outcry. In fact, one could claim that the audience, which by the way included the President of the United States, would applaud Alex P. Keaton's sarcastic tone against his liberal mother.

You can still watch Michael J Fox on TV, but now that he's not acting, it's not so conservative.

http://www.politicususa.com/michael-j-fox-rush-limbaugh.html
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badgate
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2012, 03:52:12 AM »

Is this fan fiction?
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Meeker
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2012, 04:01:10 AM »

Naso never disappoints.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2012, 04:06:43 AM »

Murica, f**k yeah!
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BlueSwan
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2012, 05:01:33 AM »

"Family Ties" glorified conservatism??? You have got to be kidding me? That show was about as bleeding-heart, treehugging, liberal as you can get. Yes, Alex P. Keaton was a sympathetic character, but his conservatism was simply a means to get laughs, NEVER something that was morally applauded on the show. Quite the contrary.

You must have been reading too much conservapedia: http://www.conservapedia.com/Essay:Greatest_Conservative_TV_Shows
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GMantis
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2012, 05:10:06 AM »

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.
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Franzl
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2012, 05:17:33 AM »

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

And that electorate is never coming back, thankfully.
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GMantis
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2012, 05:19:42 AM »

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

And that electorate is never coming back, thankfully.
Why thankfully?
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badgate
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2012, 05:22:59 AM »

Because it's less diverse?
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LastVoter
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2012, 05:23:53 AM »

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

And that electorate is never coming back, thankfully.
Why thankfully?
Do you want US to be the entertainer of the world with outrageous policy decisions?
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GMantis
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« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2012, 05:29:54 AM »

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

And that electorate is never coming back, thankfully.
Why thankfully?
Do you want US to be the entertainer of the world with outrageous policy decisions?
No, but I thought that he (like badgate) considered more diversity within a country a good thing on its own. Which is a very dubious assertion and if history is any guide, a wrong one.
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Niemeyerite
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« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2012, 05:31:14 AM »

My official prediction was 74.1% accurate,
I am NOT a hack. I am a straight shooter. I tell it the way it is. If you can understand that about me, then you can begin to respect my predictions and analysis of elections and current event topics.

LoL. Straight shooter? Really? Virginia, Florida and Colorado were Obama states once again.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2012, 05:40:02 AM »

The 80s are over and they won't be coming back.
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Franzl
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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2012, 05:41:36 AM »

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

And that electorate is never coming back, thankfully.
Why thankfully?

Although I don't think diversity is a bad thing...that comment was entirely in a political strategy sense.
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Reaganfan
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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2012, 05:45:25 AM »

My official prediction was 74.1% accurate,
I am NOT a hack. I am a straight shooter. I tell it the way it is. If you can understand that about me, then you can begin to respect my predictions and analysis of elections and current event topics.

LoL. Straight shooter? Really? Virginia, Florida and Colorado were Obama states once again.

Nobody's perfect but I was making an honest prediction. I thought those three and New Hampshire and Iowa would slip Romney's way. I was wrong, but I still predicted an Obama victory, and I was right.
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Kalimantan
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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2012, 06:06:07 AM »

Thats a decent article you write/quote. Just a couple of comments, whilst Romney and Reagan both identify as moderate conservatives, the republican party now just screams'extreme!' to everyone, what with Limbaugh, Hannity, Demint, Palin and so on. I don't recall 1980 that well, but I can't imagine the republicans were quite so Foxnewsy then. I have a no doubt a moderate republican party would have won control all three branches of the legislature this year.

second, the foreign policy gripes against Carter compare more to the gripes against Bush than against Obama.
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GMantis
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« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2012, 06:52:42 AM »

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

And that electorate is never coming back, thankfully.
Why thankfully?

Although I don't think diversity is a bad thing...that comment was entirely in a political strategy sense.
I also don't think that diversity is a bad thing. I just don't think that a country with many diverse groups is inherently better than a homogeneous country. And there are indeed lots of examples showing that the opposite might be true.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2012, 07:22:02 AM »
« Edited: November 15, 2012, 05:28:16 PM by Former President Polnut »

"Family Ties" glorified conservatism??? You have got to be kidding me? That show was about as bleeding-heart, treehugging, liberal as you can get. Yes, Alex P. Keaton was a sympathetic character, but his conservatism was simply a means to get laughs, NEVER something that was morally applauded on the show. Quite the contrary.

You must have been reading too much conservapedia: http://www.conservapedia.com/Essay:Greatest_Conservative_TV_Shows

Indeed, if Naso had been old enough to watch it when it was on, as I was... he'd know Alex was for comic relief.

I mean... the guy had a Nixon lunchbox... less than 15 years after Watergate...
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Platypus
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« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2012, 07:57:26 AM »

Mike, would you be OK if I showed this to a psychoanalyst friend of mine?
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anvi
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« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2012, 10:10:55 AM »
« Edited: November 15, 2012, 10:16:07 AM by anvi »

Actually, I remember a wonderful episode of Family Ties where a black family moves into the Keaton's neighborhood, and a bunch of the white neighbors start threatening to move out because they're afraid their property values will decline because of the race of the new homebuyers.  When those other white neighbors meet at Alex' parent's (I don't remember their character names) house, not only do the liberal parents denounce them for their racism, but Alex even chimes in and points out that the only way property values will go down in the neighborhood is precisely if all those white people start "panic-selling."  On top of that, Alex kept lionizing Nixon, who, if I'm remembering correctly, was a pretty liberal Republican by today's standards.

Based on that episode, if today's conservatives were "Alex P. Keaton conservatives," I'd be very, very happy.
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2012, 12:36:51 PM »

thank god that age is gone, drugs are awesome.

no, but really, do you seriously think it was any better than now? what you're advocating is the perpetuation of a stagnant, outdated view of the world.
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old timey villain
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« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2012, 12:51:31 PM »

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

And that electorate is never coming back, thankfully.
Why thankfully?

Although I don't think diversity is a bad thing...that comment was entirely in a political strategy sense.
I also don't think that diversity is a bad thing. I just don't think that a country with many diverse groups is inherently better than a homogeneous country. And there are indeed lots of examples showing that the opposite might be true.

I understand that many countries aren't as culturally diverse as the US, and that's fine. But the American way has always been to celebrate diversity, so it doesn't sit well with me when I hear Romney and Ryan insult Obama's diverse coalition of support by implying that we're all a bunch of freeloaders who want a handout, or to hear Bill O'Reilly whine about the decline of traditional America which is not so vague code for white patriarchy.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2012, 01:07:25 PM »

Romney's reaction:

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