Alternatives to Austerity in the European Union

[MrMittens]

I'm not making this thread merely as a means to troll opponents of austerity, I would just like to hear alternatives to the present policies being enacted across the EU.

[DC Al Fine]

Portuguese, Italian, Greek & Spanish armies march on Berlin.

[k-onmmunist]

increasing taxes on the wealthiest.

i don't see what's so bad about this.

[MaxQue]

Without the Euro, it would a simple answer.
Greece would devalue the Drachma, Italy the Lira, Spain the Peseta and Portugal the Escudo.

And hikes on income taxes, not on consommation taxes (since the latter hurts consommation more)

[k-onmmunist]

Without the Euro, it would a simple answer.
Greece would devalue the Drachma, Italy the Lira, Spain the Peseta and Portugal the Escudo.

this too.

[Silent Hunter]

A slowing down of spending cuts.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Increase pump-priming and/or raise taxes on the wealthiest.

[MrMittens]

One thing, isn't hiking income tax sort of austerity-like?

[k-onmmunist]

One thing, isn't hiking income tax sort of austerity-like?

how?

[MrMittens]

One thing, isn't hiking income tax sort of austerity-like?

how?

Just as when a family is in debt, they cut back on expenses, and spend more of their money on paying back debt. A government taking in more tax to pay down debt is a similar sort of thing.

[DC Al Fine]

One thing, isn't hiking income tax sort of austerity-like?

You've hit on an excellent point. A large chunk of the anti-austerity left isn't actually anti-austerity. They just disagree with how it's implemented.

[MrMittens]

One thing, isn't hiking income tax sort of austerity-like?

You've hit on an excellent point. A large chunk of the anti-austerity left isn't actually anti-austerity. They just disagree with how it's implemented.

That's very true. I must remember that the next time the Unions are banging on about austerity.

[k-onmmunist]

One thing, isn't hiking income tax sort of austerity-like?

how?

Just as when a family is in debt, they cut back on expenses, and spend more of their money on paying back debt. A government taking in more tax to pay down debt is a similar sort of thing.

not really, this wouldn't involve cutting back on expenses. taxes on the wealthy, who can afford it, makes much more sense to me than making the majority suffer by cutting social spending. also, the family-government analogy is horrendously overused.

[MrMittens]

One thing, isn't hiking income tax sort of austerity-like?

how?

Just as when a family is in debt, they cut back on expenses, and spend more of their money on paying back debt. A government taking in more tax to pay down debt is a similar sort of thing.

not really, this wouldn't involve cutting back on expenses. taxes on the wealthy, who can afford it, makes much more sense to me than making the majority suffer by cutting social spending. also, the family-government analogy is horrendously overused.

Maybe that analogy is overused. But the idea of raising taxes on the wealthy being an alternative to spending cuts is an idiot's lantern (an expression, I'm really not calling oppnents of austerity idiots), since even by simply taking away all the money and assets of the rich could we pay off the debt and close the deficit.

[k-onmmunist]

One thing, isn't hiking income tax sort of austerity-like?

how?

Just as when a family is in debt, they cut back on expenses, and spend more of their money on paying back debt. A government taking in more tax to pay down debt is a similar sort of thing.

not really, this wouldn't involve cutting back on expenses. taxes on the wealthy, who can afford it, makes much more sense to me than making the majority suffer by cutting social spending. also, the family-government analogy is horrendously overused.

Maybe that analogy is overused. But the idea of raising taxes on the wealthy being an alternative to spending cuts is an idiot's lantern (an expression, I'm really not calling oppnents of austerity idiots), since even by simply taking away all the money and assets of the rich could we pay off the debt and close the deficit.

what do you mean? a program of income tax hikes and maybe some other measures such as legalizing and taxing drugs would be enough to get rid of the deficit.

[opebo]

Austerity = cuts in spending or increases in taxes on consumers/workers.  Taxes on the rich are not austerity, as their money is not consumed, but only saved.  A tax on the rich = the same thing as the State borrowing money.  Either just takes money out of the useless excess of savings that the world is burdened with today and puts it to work to support what is lacking - demand.

Certainly large increases in taxation on the wealthy are a big positive, but even more important is to increase, not decrease, government spending - increasing social payments.  This should be funded by massive borrowing, which should be supported by European Central Bank buying of any debt which fails to be readily bought by 'the market'.  This ECB printing should also have the beneficial result of a steady devaluation of the Euro.

[Blue3]

Federal Union

[LastVoter]

Well an annual wealth tax of 1% might be a lot better than consumption taxes. Of course printing money is a far simpler solution.

[MrMittens]

Austerity = cuts in spending or increases in taxes on consumers/workers.  Taxes on the rich are not austerity, as their money is not consumed, but only saved.  A tax on the rich = the same thing as the State borrowing money.  Either just takes money out of the useless excess of savings that the world is burdened with today and puts it to work to support what is lacking - demand.

Certainly large increases in taxation on the wealthy are a big positive, but even more important is to increase, not decrease, government spending - increasing social payments.  This should be funded by massive borrowing, which should be supported by European Central Bank buying of any debt which fails to be readily bought by 'the market'.  This ECB printing should also have the beneficial result of a steady devaluation of the Euro.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24277258.jpg&imgrefurl=http://memegenerator.net/instance/24277258&h=300&w=400&sz=68&tbnid=M8ZvXQvKzKua-M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=120&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnot%2Bsure%2Bif%2Bserious%2Bfuturama%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=not+sure+if+serious+futurama&usg=__HVyX6y4PXm-P11ujEoI1ESvTlQY=&docid=gk8SvE_zjkJQQM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EbemUNjQN9GU0QWpm4DADw&ved=0CEEQ9QEwBw

[DC Al Fine]

Austerity = cuts in spending or increases in taxes on consumers/workers.  Taxes on the rich are not austerity, as their money is not consumed, but only saved.  A tax on the rich = the same thing as the State borrowing money.  Either just takes money out of the useless excess of savings that the world is burdened with today and puts it to work to support what is lacking - demand.

Certainly large increases in taxation on the wealthy are a big positive, but even more important is to increase, not decrease, government spending - increasing social payments.  This should be funded by massive borrowing, which should be supported by European Central Bank buying of any debt which fails to be readily bought by 'the market'.  This ECB printing should also have the beneficial result of a steady devaluation of the Euro.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24277258.jpg&imgrefurl=http://memegenerator.net/instance/24277258&h=300&w=400&sz=68&tbnid=M8ZvXQvKzKua-M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=120&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnot%2Bsure%2Bif%2Bserious%2Bfuturama%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=not+sure+if+serious+futurama&usg=__HVyX6y4PXm-P11ujEoI1ESvTlQY=&docid=gk8SvE_zjkJQQM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EbemUNjQN9GU0QWpm4DADw&ved=0CEEQ9QEwBw

Opebo is serious.

[MrMittens]

Austerity = cuts in spending or increases in taxes on consumers/workers.  Taxes on the rich are not austerity, as their money is not consumed, but only saved.  A tax on the rich = the same thing as the State borrowing money.  Either just takes money out of the useless excess of savings that the world is burdened with today and puts it to work to support what is lacking - demand.

Certainly large increases in taxation on the wealthy are a big positive, but even more important is to increase, not decrease, government spending - increasing social payments.  This should be funded by massive borrowing, which should be supported by European Central Bank buying of any debt which fails to be readily bought by 'the market'.  This ECB printing should also have the beneficial result of a steady devaluation of the Euro.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24277258.jpg&imgrefurl=http://memegenerator.net/instance/24277258&h=300&w=400&sz=68&tbnid=M8ZvXQvKzKua-M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=120&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dnot%2Bsure%2Bif%2Bserious%2Bfuturama%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=not+sure+if+serious+futurama&usg=__HVyX6y4PXm-P11ujEoI1ESvTlQY=&docid=gk8SvE_zjkJQQM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EbemUNjQN9GU0QWpm4DADw&ved=0CEEQ9QEwBw

Opebo is serious.

Uh oh...

Sorry about the massive link :(p

[You kip if you want to...]

One thing, isn't hiking income tax sort of austerity-like?

how?

Just as when a family is in debt, they cut back on expenses, and spend more of their money on paying back debt. A government taking in more tax to pay down debt is a similar sort of thing.

When anyone tries to relate a national economy to household finances, you know they don't know what they're talking about.

[MrMittens]

One thing, isn't hiking income tax sort of austerity-like?

how?

Just as when a family is in debt, they cut back on expenses, and spend more of their money on paying back debt. A government taking in more tax to pay down debt is a similar sort of thing.

When anyone tries to relate a national economy to household finances, you know they don't know what they're talking about.

Meh its just an analogy.