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jmfcst
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« on: February 07, 2005, 05:48:53 pm »

"I got into this race five weeks ago to talk about the devastating loss we experienced in November," Roemer said in an interview. "It was not about 60,000 votes in Ohio. It was about losing 97 of the 100 fastest growing counties in the country. If that's a trend in business or politics you're in trouble."

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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2005, 08:34:42 pm »

Hmmm...It seems Roemer is far wiser than the Guy the Dems are going to tap.  Howard "I hate Republicans" Dean is the best thing that could happen to the GOP.  Dean will recruit candidates from the Democratic wing of the Democrat Party, something that will guarantee increased GOP margins in the House and Senate in '06 and '08.  We should be well positioned to go for 60 seats in the Senate by '08 when the next Republican gets elected President.   Thanks Howie!
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jfern
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« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2005, 08:40:03 pm »

Hmmm...It seems Roemer is far wiser than the Guy the Dems are going to tap.  Howard "I hate Republicans" Dean is the best thing that could happen to the GOP.  Dean will recruit candidates from the Democratic wing of the Democrat Party, something that will guarantee increased GOP margins in the House and Senate in '06 and '08.  We should be well positioned to go for 60 seats in the Senate by '08 when the next Republican gets elected President.   Thanks Howie!

We should have elected Zell Miller, just like you wanted.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha.
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nick
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« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2005, 09:12:26 pm »
« Edited: February 07, 2005, 09:39:29 pm by nickshepDEM »

Roemer was satisfied with the status quo.  He was a pro-life Terry McAuliffe.  Ill admit Dean is a gamble, but he is a gamble I am willing to take.  If we continue down the same rode we have been on for the past 10 years we will continue to lose elections.  Its time for change and Howard Dean is the man who can bring change.  Will it be for the better?  I dont know, but its better than sitting around being satisfied with losing.  I more interested in his plans to rebuild the party form the bottom up and putting the power in the hands of the people rather than some foreign consultant.
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A18
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2005, 09:22:06 pm »

Hmmm...It seems Roemer is far wiser than the Guy the Dems are going to tap.  Howard "I hate Republicans" Dean is the best thing that could happen to the GOP.  Dean will recruit candidates from the Democratic wing of the Democrat Party, something that will guarantee increased GOP margins in the House and Senate in '06 and '08.  We should be well positioned to go for 60 seats in the Senate by '08 when the next Republican gets elected President.   Thanks Howie!

We should have elected Zell Miller, just like you wanted.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha.

Zell Miller's a little left wing for my tastes. I don't know about everyone else.
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Jake
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2005, 10:24:31 pm »

The only better choice for Chairman would've been Fowler.  Just as good, just as inspiring, and much less polarizing.  Dean will make the Democrats into what they're supposed to be, liberals. Democrats are supposed to be Democrats, not Republican-lite.  Dean will energize the party and will be a breath of fresh air.  Kerry lost just as many voters, by pandering, as he gained.  Get a message.
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J. J.
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2005, 11:08:08 pm »

Roemer was satisfied with the status quo. He was a pro-life Terry McAuliffe. Ill admit Dean is a gamble, but he is a gamble I am willing to take.


The "status quo" was two presidential elections where the losing candidate was within striking distance of winning.  The gamble is that the electorate is fairly liberal, too liberal to elect a candidate like Bill Clinton.
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AuH2O
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2005, 11:12:20 pm »

Dean's career path just makes no sense to me. I mean, he's basically a nobody, smart enough to figure out that people die in war. Wow, great accomplishment. Not sure why Johnny-come-lately should be DNC chair. Seems like that's the opposite of what you would want.

Not that Roemer was some great option.
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2005, 11:17:14 pm »

yeah, like there's any candidate you would've liked.

There's nothing wrong with Dean. He is not a far leftist. Anyone who's actually bothered to look at his record can testify to that. He's actually to right of Kerry, who's fine for more than 48% of Americans.
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AuH2O
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2005, 11:24:01 pm »

yeah, like there's any candidate you would've liked.

There's nothing wrong with Dean. He is not a far leftist. Anyone who's actually bothered to look at his record can testify to that. He's actually to right of Kerry, who's fine for more than 48% of Americans.

I don't want to like the DNC chair. I'm just talking about what they should do, since of course I'm not worried about them hearing what I say or, even if they did, caring.

Dean is not a far leftist. That isn't the problem with him at all-- actually of the Democratic options last cycle I might have disliked him the least. The problem with him is that his judgement in hiring staff appears questionable and he has demonstrated no campaign organizational skills. Worse, his fundraising experience was mostly with small donors, and the Democratic Party also needs labor, corporate, PAC etc. money.

He also is somewhat abrasive, which is basically the opposite of what you want. You want a schmoozer like McAuliffe, except one with a better sense of the political big picture. There Dean probably has as good an idea as anybody; he slipped with the confederate flag remark, but that showed he understands the Democrat's structural disadvantage.

I also suspect his motives.
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nick
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2005, 11:44:16 pm »
« Edited: February 07, 2005, 11:49:53 pm by nickshepDEM »

The only better choice for Chairman would've been Fowler. Just as good, just as inspiring, and much less polarizing. Dean will make the Democrats into what they're supposed to be, liberals. Democrats are supposed to be Democrats, not Republican-lite. Dean will energize the party and will be a breath of fresh air. Kerry lost just as many voters, by pandering, as he gained. Get a message.

I agree 100%, Jake.

Anyways, I would have been satisfied with Rosenberg or Fowler, but Dean was my number one choice.  Just as long as he keeps away from the strong anti-war remarks I think he'll do just fine.
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2005, 05:21:03 am »

yeah, like there's any candidate you would've liked.

There's nothing wrong with Dean. He is not a far leftist. Anyone who's actually bothered to look at his record can testify to that. He's actually to right of Kerry, who's fine for more than 48% of Americans.

I don't want to like the DNC chair. I'm just talking about what they should do, since of course I'm not worried about them hearing what I say or, even if they did, caring.

Dean is not a far leftist. That isn't the problem with him at all-- actually of the Democratic options last cycle I might have disliked him the least. The problem with him is that his judgement in hiring staff appears questionable and he has demonstrated no campaign organizational skills. Worse, his fundraising experience was mostly with small donors, and the Democratic Party also needs labor, corporate, PAC etc. money.

He also is somewhat abrasive, which is basically the opposite of what you want. You want a schmoozer like McAuliffe, except one with a better sense of the political big picture. There Dean probably has as good an idea as anybody; he slipped with the confederate flag remark, but that showed he understands the Democrat's structural disadvantage.

I also suspect his motives.

"he has demonstrated no campaign organizational skills"

Sorry but I disagree. Dean started at 0. He climbed and became first in polls. His fundraising was exceptional. I strongly believe that without the undemocratic caucus of Iowa, he would have gained the NH primary and the dem race.

After the scream and the crash, he founded the DFA organization with success if you consider the challenge.

His ability to take the chairmanship of the dem party is a proof that this guy knows his job.

Last but not least, the "50 states" strategy seems to me the best and to take Gingrich like example is good too.
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TeePee4Prez
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2005, 03:38:28 am »

yeah, like there's any candidate you would've liked.

There's nothing wrong with Dean. He is not a far leftist. Anyone who's actually bothered to look at his record can testify to that. He's actually to right of Kerry, who's fine for more than 48% of Americans.

I don't want to like the DNC chair. I'm just talking about what they should do, since of course I'm not worried about them hearing what I say or, even if they did, caring.

Dean is not a far leftist. That isn't the problem with him at all-- actually of the Democratic options last cycle I might have disliked him the least. The problem with him is that his judgement in hiring staff appears questionable and he has demonstrated no campaign organizational skills. Worse, his fundraising experience was mostly with small donors, and the Democratic Party also needs labor, corporate, PAC etc. money.

He also is somewhat abrasive, which is basically the opposite of what you want. You want a schmoozer like McAuliffe, except one with a better sense of the political big picture. There Dean probably has as good an idea as anybody; he slipped with the confederate flag remark, but that showed he understands the Democrat's structural disadvantage.

I also suspect his motives.

"he has demonstrated no campaign organizational skills"

Sorry but I disagree. Dean started at 0. He climbed and became first in polls. His fundraising was exceptional. I strongly believe that without the undemocratic caucus of Iowa, he would have gained the NH primary and the dem race.

After the scream and the crash, he founded the DFA organization with success if you consider the challenge.

His ability to take the chairmanship of the dem party is a proof that this guy knows his job.

Last but not least, the "50 states" strategy seems to me the best and to take Gingrich like example is good too.

I also like Dean focusing on the local level as well.  One thing the Democrats do locally is concede local races such a the State Rep candidacies because the incumbent is entrenched and "likeable".  I know Keystone will disagee with me, but people like Perzel, Kenney, O'Brien, and yes even Taylor need to be challenged EVERY year and have a legit one at that.  We can't just say "he's a neighborhood guy, let him go" anymore.  I once thought some of theese entrenched GOPers should not be bothered with until their retirements, but a lot is at stake here such a Congressional gerrymandering, et al.  Yes KP, I've changed my mind on this.  At least at the local level where I am this guilt tripping the GOP uses needs to come to an end and these 20+ year Republican incumbents need to be challenged.       
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2005, 01:53:37 pm »

"I got into this race five weeks ago to talk about the devastating loss we experienced in November," Roemer said in an interview. "It was not about 60,000 votes in Ohio. It was about losing 97 of the 100 fastest growing counties in the country. If that's a trend in business or politics you're in trouble."



I think Roemer makes a very good point, which should be food for though for any Democrat who wants their party, ultimately, to succeed

Dave
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2005, 02:43:16 pm »

yeah, like there's any candidate you would've liked.

There's nothing wrong with Dean. He is not a far leftist. Anyone who's actually bothered to look at his record can testify to that. He's actually to right of Kerry, who's fine for more than 48% of Americans.

I don't want to like the DNC chair. I'm just talking about what they should do, since of course I'm not worried about them hearing what I say or, even if they did, caring.

Dean is not a far leftist. That isn't the problem with him at all-- actually of the Democratic options last cycle I might have disliked him the least. The problem with him is that his judgement in hiring staff appears questionable and he has demonstrated no campaign organizational skills. Worse, his fundraising experience was mostly with small donors, and the Democratic Party also needs labor, corporate, PAC etc. money.

He also is somewhat abrasive, which is basically the opposite of what you want. You want a schmoozer like McAuliffe, except one with a better sense of the political big picture. There Dean probably has as good an idea as anybody; he slipped with the confederate flag remark, but that showed he understands the Democrat's structural disadvantage.

I also suspect his motives.

"he has demonstrated no campaign organizational skills"

Sorry but I disagree. Dean started at 0. He climbed and became first in polls. His fundraising was exceptional. I strongly believe that without the undemocratic caucus of Iowa, he would have gained the NH primary and the dem race.

After the scream and the crash, he founded the DFA organization with success if you consider the challenge.

His ability to take the chairmanship of the dem party is a proof that this guy knows his job.

Last but not least, the "50 states" strategy seems to me the best and to take Gingrich like example is good too.

I also like Dean focusing on the local level as well. One thing the Democrats do locally is concede local races such a the State Rep candidacies because the incumbent is entrenched and "likeable". I know Keystone will disagee with me, but people like Perzel, Kenney, O'Brien, and yes even Taylor need to be challenged EVERY year and have a legit one at that. We can't just say "he's a neighborhood guy, let him go" anymore. I once thought some of theese entrenched GOPers should not be bothered with until their retirements, but a lot is at stake here such a Congressional gerrymandering, et al. Yes KP, I've changed my mind on this. At least at the local level where I am this guilt tripping the GOP uses needs to come to an end and these 20+ year Republican incumbents need to be challenged.

I don't want to make this into a PA debate (and you accuse me of bringing it up all the time?).

Have challengers for Perzel, O'Brien and Taylor. It's makes it more fun to watch. You do know though that they would get crushed everytime, right? 25-30% is the best a Dem can do against Perzel. Any Dem would be lucky to reach 20% against O'Brien. Taylor's opponent would also get beat badly. Winning might not be your point but I just wanted to inform you (if you really do think these people can get rid of Perzel, O'Brien and Taylor, that you are wrong).
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nick
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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2005, 02:50:07 pm »
« Edited: February 11, 2005, 03:14:27 pm by nickshepDEM »

I don't want to make this into a PA debate (and you accuse me of bringing it up all the time?).

Have challengers for Perzel, O'Brien and Taylor. It's makes it more fun to watch. You do know though that they would get crushed everytime, right? 25-30% is the best a Dem can do against Perzel. Any Dem would be lucky to reach 20% against O'Brien. Taylor's opponent would also get beat badly. Winning might not be your point but I just wanted to inform you (if you really do think these people can get rid of Perzel, O'Brien and Taylor, that you are wrong).

Theres still a pretty good strategy to running Democrats against strong Republican opponents.  Even if the Democrat loses by 80%,  it is still good to get the Democratic message out there because eventually that seat will be open and it will give the next Democrat a better chance at picking up that seat.
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WalterMitty
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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2005, 03:42:46 pm »

roemer=a republican

period,
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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2005, 04:17:04 pm »

I don't want to make this into a PA debate (and you accuse me of bringing it up all the time?).

Have challengers for Perzel, O'Brien and Taylor. It's makes it more fun to watch. You do know though that they would get crushed everytime, right? 25-30% is the best a Dem can do against Perzel. Any Dem would be lucky to reach 20% against O'Brien. Taylor's opponent would also get beat badly. Winning might not be your point but I just wanted to inform you (if you really do think these people can get rid of Perzel, O'Brien and Taylor, that you are wrong).

Theres still a pretty good strategy to running Democrats against strong Republican opponents. Even if the Democrat loses by 80%, it is still good to get the Democratic message out there because eventually that seat will be open and it will give the next Democrat a better chance at picking up that seat.

I understand that.
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Akno21
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« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2005, 04:38:41 pm »

The whole 50-state strategy sounds nice, but come'on, it is unrealistic. In Presidential elections, you only really go after 15 states, and you are out of money. We do not have the money to strongly back a Senate candidate in Alabama. Sorry.

If the local parties do a good job, hurray for them, but the national party really doesn't have the resources to compete everywhere. And face it, we are just wasting our time in some states, if the money could be used elsewhere.
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jfern
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« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2005, 07:37:39 pm »

The whole 50-state strategy sounds nice, but come'on, it is unrealistic. In Presidential elections, you only really go after 15 states, and you are out of money. We do not have the money to strongly back a Senate candidate in Alabama. Sorry.

If the local parties do a good job, hurray for them, but the national party really doesn't have the resources to compete everywhere. And face it, we are just wasting our time in some states, if the money could be used elsewhere.

It doesn't mean that you give full resources to every State.

Sometimes you get lucky where you were sure you were going to lose. We almost won the Kentucky Senate race. The fact that it was close was a shocker. More money spent on that race, and we would have surely won.
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Akno21
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« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2005, 08:13:10 pm »

The whole 50-state strategy sounds nice, but come'on, it is unrealistic. In Presidential elections, you only really go after 15 states, and you are out of money. We do not have the money to strongly back a Senate candidate in Alabama. Sorry.

If the local parties do a good job, hurray for them, but the national party really doesn't have the resources to compete everywhere. And face it, we are just wasting our time in some states, if the money could be used elsewhere.

It doesn't mean that you give full resources to every State.

Sometimes you get lucky where you were sure you were going to lose. We almost won the Kentucky Senate race. The fact that it was close was a shocker. More money spent on that race, and we would have surely won.

What race would that money have come out of?
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« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2005, 08:49:43 am »

I hate to keep bashing Dean(not really), but he will be a disaster for the Democrats. He's too unpredictable, and he'll hurt the party image. I can see Republicans using his image to scare up money for their candidates in the midterms.

The crux of the problem with Howard Dean is that he is perceived as being way outside the mainstream, whether he is or not! As DNC Chair, I hope he plays the role of a tenacious Chief Exec and that's all

Dave
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« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2005, 02:59:57 pm »

I hate to keep bashing Dean(not really), but he will be a disaster for the Democrats. He's too unpredictable, and he'll hurt the party image. I can see Republicans using his image to scare up money for their candidates in the midterms.

The crux of the problem with Howard Dean is that he is perceived as being way outside the mainstream, whether he is or not! As DNC Chair, I hope he plays the role of a tenacious Chief Exec and that's all

Dave

Correct.  In politics reality is irrelevant.  Only people's perception of reality matters.
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2005, 03:13:07 am »

I hate to keep bashing Dean(not really), but he will be a disaster for the Democrats. He's too unpredictable, and he'll hurt the party image. I can see Republicans using his image to scare up money for their candidates in the midterms.

The crux of the problem with Howard Dean is that he is perceived as being way outside the mainstream, whether he is or not! As DNC Chair, I hope he plays the role of a tenacious Chief Exec and that's all

Dave

Correct.  In politics reality is irrelevant.  Only people's perception of reality matters.

What you're saying is reality, so needless to say it's irrelevant.
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ATFFL
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« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2005, 07:49:32 pm »

I hate to keep bashing Dean(not really), but he will be a disaster for the Democrats. He's too unpredictable, and he'll hurt the party image. I can see Republicans using his image to scare up money for their candidates in the midterms.

The crux of the problem with Howard Dean is that he is perceived as being way outside the mainstream, whether he is or not! As DNC Chair, I hope he plays the role of a tenacious Chief Exec and that's all

Dave

Correct.  In politics reality is irrelevant.  Only people's perception of reality matters.

What you're saying is reality, so needless to say it's irrelevant.


It is also perceived to be real.

Also, if it is needless to say it, why did you?
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