How did it come to this?
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  How did it come to this?
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Author Topic: How did it come to this?  (Read 1265 times)
MrMittens
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« on: November 18, 2012, 03:23:27 AM »

How did the U.S Political system become so polarized?
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2012, 08:07:05 AM »

Primaries. While 5 old dudes smoking cigars in a back room isn't the most democratic system in the world, they usually pick pretty centrist candidates. Primaries force candidates to appeal to their respective bases, which means more extreme options come through on both sides.
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fezzyfestoon
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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2012, 08:58:30 AM »
« Edited: November 21, 2012, 01:29:03 PM by fezzyfestoon »

The perpetuation of a false political dichotomy that massively limits the freedoms and choices of the people requires an increasingly loud declaration of opposition to the only other state-sanctioned option. They need to keep pushing away from each other more and more aggressively otherwise people will realize that both parties represent the same interests...and neither represents us.
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justfollowingtheelections
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« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2012, 01:38:33 AM »

Negative advertising.  Which is in itself a result of voters' cynicism (they hate all politicians and they end up voting for the people they hate the least).  Which is a result of political corruption.  Which is the result of having a representative democracy, rather than a direct democracy (possible in this day and age).  And the main reason very few would trust a direct democracy is because the public is ignorant.  The public is ignorant for two reasons: i) rational ignorance: the voters have more important things to do than spend their time educating themselves on the issues, usually due to economic hardships, ii) lack of education: in a country where going to college costs a fortune that shouldn't surprise us.
All in all, the reason it has come down to this is because America is still an oligarchy run by the 1% that manipulates the public by making them vote on fringe issues while their wellbeing and the wellbeing of future generations is on the line.
There's your answer my friend. 
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Frodo
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« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2012, 01:57:18 AM »
« Edited: November 22, 2012, 01:59:50 AM by Frodo »

The cultural revolution wrought by the 1960s and '70s, including legislation like the Civil Rights/Voting Rights acts and the Immigration and Nationality Act, which upended the old New Deal Coalition, and which made our political system much more ideologically (and racially) polarized as the parties changed to meet the new reality.  
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© tweed
Miamiu1027
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« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2012, 02:03:09 AM »

it isn't
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opebo
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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2012, 02:39:27 PM »

Precisely, Tweed.

It is sleight of hand - to mask the fact that there is no actual Left in American politics.
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King
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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2012, 05:58:46 PM »

The same reason moms don't let the kids go out and play anymore even though the streets are ten times safer than they were in the 1950s:  fear tactic ratings media.
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2012, 06:35:03 PM »

right wing corporatism vs far right wing corporatism isn't polarized.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2012, 08:18:47 PM »

Precisely, Tweed.

It is sleight of hand - to mask the fact that there is no actual Left in American politics.

What about abortion, guns etc? There seems to be a fair degree of polarization there.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2012, 09:27:24 PM »

What do you even mean by polarisation?
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TNF
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2012, 11:31:32 PM »

Income inequality.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2012, 03:12:28 PM »

"America is a one-party system, with two right wings. "

-Gore Vidal (paraphrased).
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Supermariobros
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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2012, 05:09:48 AM »

"America is a one-party system, with two right wings. "

Sike.
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Marnetmar
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2012, 10:06:56 AM »

right wing corporatism vs far right wing corporatism isn't polarized.

"They're both two sides of the same coin, we're doomed!"

Take off your tinfoil hat.
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2012, 10:13:57 AM »

right wing corporatism vs far right wing corporatism isn't polarized.

"They're both two sides of the same coin, we're doomed!"

Take off your tinfoil hat.

thanks for that well argued counter to my post, i now feel like i've been savaged by a dead sheep.
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Marnetmar
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2012, 10:25:37 AM »

right wing corporatism vs far right wing corporatism isn't polarized.

"They're both two sides of the same coin, we're doomed!"

Take off your tinfoil hat.

thanks for that well argued counter to my post, i now feel like i've been savaged by a dead sheep.

Look at sites such as ontheissues.org that list the actual positions of each politician. Look up some key politicians in our history from both sides, and then plot them on a chart. The American left and right are both shifting further and further away from the center.

Here's a political compass chart I posted in a previous thread of mine:

Left:

John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson: E -4, S -2
Bill Clinton: E -4, S -4
Barack Obama: E -5, S -6
John Kerry: E -7.5, S -8
Rocky Anderson: E -9, S -10

Right:

Richard Nixon: E 2, S 2
Gerald Ford: E 4, S 4
Ronald Reagan: E 4, S 6
Mitt Romney: E 2, S 8
George W. Bush: E 7.5, S 8
Rick Santorum: E 7.5, S 10.
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k-onmmunist
Winston Disraeli
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« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2012, 10:32:37 AM »

right wing corporatism vs far right wing corporatism isn't polarized.

"They're both two sides of the same coin, we're doomed!"

Take off your tinfoil hat.

thanks for that well argued counter to my post, i now feel like i've been savaged by a dead sheep.

Look at sites such as ontheissues.org that list the actual positions of each politician. Look up some key politicians in our history from both sides, and then plot them on a chart. The American left and right are both shifting further and further away from the center.

Here's a political compass chart I posted in a previous thread of mine:

Left:

John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson: E -4, S -2
Bill Clinton: E -4, S -4
Barack Obama: E -5, S -6
John Kerry: E -7.5, S -8
Rocky Anderson: E -9, S -10

Right:

Richard Nixon: E 2, S 2
Gerald Ford: E 4, S 4
Ronald Reagan: E 4, S 6
Mitt Romney: E 2, S 8
George W. Bush: E 7.5, S 8
Rick Santorum: E 7.5, S 10.

and my point is this: if you're an actual believer in free markets, or in any variant of left wing ideology, you're seeing your viewpoints being marginalized. a lot of people seem to think we have a free market economy today - we don't. the government will prop up large corporations and so the market keeps centralizing into smaller and smaller groups of private cartels and oligopolies. the debate in american politics doesn't revolve around whether this is a tolerable state of affairs, it revolves around how best the government can protect these corporations. this is why i believe the tea party and the occupy movement aren't that different - the problem is, each of them are only seeing one side of the coin.

i can see yr. argument over social issues though, perhaps. if you're looking for a real polarization, that's the place to go, because even if there's a stalemate in congress over most of the issues (with small changes now and then, i.e. the repeal of dadt), the party bases are far more polarized. it's a cultural and geographical divide, which i suppose is bound to happen if you live in a country as large as the united states.
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