Opinion of Barry Goldwater

[TNF]

HP, principles don't matter if the "principles" you stand for cause massive amounts of human pain and suffering. Goldwater's ideology is precisely why the United States is in such bad shape today.

Goldwater didn't want to ban pornography, wiretap people's homes or persecute atheists.

But he did vote against the abolition of Jim Crow, opposed the creation of Medicare and Medicaid, and supported union-busting efforts in Arizona and at the national level.

[DC Al Fine]

HP, principles don't matter if the "principles" you stand for cause massive amounts of human pain and suffering. Goldwater's ideology is precisely why the United States is in such bad shape today.

Goldwater didn't want to ban pornography, wiretap people's homes or persecute atheists.

But he did vote against the abolition of Jim Crow, opposed the creation of Medicare and Medicaid, and supported union-busting efforts in Arizona and at the national level.

He was also a founding member of the Arizona NAACP IIRC.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

He was also a founding member of the Arizona NAACP IIRC.

That doesn't excuse how he voted once he got into the Senate, though.

[CountryRoads]

Question to ALL of you "Civil Right's LOVING" Liberals.


Do you like Robert Byrd?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Question to ALL of you "Civil Right's LOVING" Liberals.


Do you like Robert Byrd?

Obviously not.

You on the other hand...

I'm a Trent Lott man.

...seem to have no problem with people whose views on the issue evolved much less than Byrd's.

[bedstuy]

He was definitely wrong about the Civil rights act.  That was wrong but people make mistakes. 

He was a principled guy.  I give him a ton of credit for basically disowning the modern conservative movement later in his career.  I bet if he had lived till today he would have voted for Obama both times.

[AkSaber]

Sad to think how much better off we'd be if somehow he'd won in 1964.

[Donerail]

I bet if he had lived till today he would have voted for Obama both times.

Barry Goldwater Jr.-endorsed Gary Johnson says hi. Like you said, he had principles, so I can't see him backing Obama.

[DC Al Fine]

I bet if he had lived till today he would have voted for Obama both times.

Barry Goldwater Jr.-endorsed Gary Johnson says hi. Like you said, he had principles, so I can't see him backing Obama.

Yeah, if he was 30 years younger, I could see him being an elder statesmen for the Libertarians or Ron Paul Republicans.

[bedstuy]

I bet if he had lived till today he would have voted for Obama both times.

Barry Goldwater Jr.-endorsed Gary Johnson says hi. Like you said, he had principles, so I can't see him backing Obama.

Yeah, if he was 30 years younger, I could see him being an elder statesmen for the Libertarians or Ron Paul Republicans.

For some reason I thought Barry Goldwater Jr. endorsed Romney.  In any case, he doesn't necessarily represent his father.  Goldwater himself was pro-choice, pro-immigration, pro-gay rights and hated the Christian's right influence over the party.  I can't see him supporting the Republican party as it's constituted today.  People think of Goldwater as super libertarian and conservative but you have to remember how far right the country has gone on many issues since the 1960s.  The views of a mainstream Republican in the 1960s would be considered center left today.

But, definitely, I don't see Ron Paul as any kind of intellectual heir to Goldwater.  Ron Paul's foreign policy views are about as far from Goldwater's as you can get.  Goldwater also never embraced anything like Ron Paul's gadfly views on the Constitution or economic policy.

[DC Al Fine]

I bet if he had lived till today he would have voted for Obama both times.

Barry Goldwater Jr.-endorsed Gary Johnson says hi. Like you said, he had principles, so I can't see him backing Obama.

What about Johnson?
Yeah, if he was 30 years younger, I could see him being an elder statesmen for the Libertarians or Ron Paul Republicans.

For some reason I thought Barry Goldwater Jr. endorsed Romney.  In any case, he doesn't necessarily represent his father.  Goldwater himself was pro-choice, pro-immigration, pro-gay rights and hated the Christian's right influence over the party.  I can't see him supporting the Republican party as it's constituted today.  People think of Goldwater as super libertarian and conservative but you have to remember how far right the country has gone on many issues since the 1960s.  The views of a mainstream Republican in the 1960s would be considered center left today.

But, definitely, I don't see Ron Paul as any kind of intellectual heir to Goldwater.  Ron Paul's foreign policy views are about as far from Goldwater's as you can get.  Goldwater also never embraced anything like Ron Paul's gadfly views on the Constitution or economic policy.

What about Johnson?

[RIP Robert H Bork]

Evil.

[Donerail]

For some reason I thought Barry Goldwater Jr. endorsed Romney.

"I'm impressed with Gary Johnson because of his success in two terms as Governor of New Mexico. He demonstrated his ability to govern with extreme opposition. I definitely think he's qualified, if for no other reason than that, to be President of the United States. He's got more experience than Obama ever hoped to have in managing government and governmental affairs. ... He's got a successful track record, and he has the tools he needs to lead."--Rep. Barry Goldwater, Jr.

In any case, he doesn't necessarily represent his father.  Goldwater himself was pro-choice, pro-immigration, pro-gay rights and hated the Christian's right influence over the party.  I can't see him supporting the Republican party as it's constituted today.  People think of Goldwater as super libertarian and conservative but you have to remember how far right the country has gone on many issues since the 1960s.  The views of a mainstream Republican in the 1960s would be considered center left today.

All those things describe Gary Johnson.

But, definitely, I don't see Ron Paul as any kind of intellectual heir to Goldwater.  Ron Paul's foreign policy views are about as far from Goldwater's as you can get.  Goldwater also never embraced anything like Ron Paul's gadfly views on the Constitution or economic policy.

Goldwater, IIRC, was a pretty big fan of both the Constitution and a responsible economic policy; that sets him apart from most others, so it seems logical that the one closest to that today would be considered his intellectual heir.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

A non-HP that represented HP causes.

[bedstuy]

For some reason I thought Barry Goldwater Jr. endorsed Romney.

"I'm impressed with Gary Johnson because of his success in two terms as Governor of New Mexico. He demonstrated his ability to govern with extreme opposition. I definitely think he's qualified, if for no other reason than that, to be President of the United States. He's got more experience than Obama ever hoped to have in managing government and governmental affairs. ... He's got a successful track record, and he has the tools he needs to lead."--Rep. Barry Goldwater, Jr.

Here's an article that says he endorsed Romney but who cares anyway.
http://www.humanevents.com/2012/09/21/barry-goldwater-jr-changes-support-from-paul-to-romney/

But, definitely, I don't see Ron Paul as any kind of intellectual heir to Goldwater.  Ron Paul's foreign policy views are about as far from Goldwater's as you can get.  Goldwater also never embraced anything like Ron Paul's gadfly views on the Constitution or economic policy.

Goldwater, IIRC, was a pretty big fan of both the Constitution and a responsible economic policy; that sets him apart from most others, so it seems logical that the one closest to that today would be considered his intellectual heir.

When I say gadfly I mean all of Ron Paul's beliefs about monetary policy and his desire to return to the government of the 1870s.  Would Barry Goldwater say we didn't need a Federal Reserve Bank?   

[Donerail]

When I say gadfly I mean all of Ron Paul's beliefs about monetary policy and his desire to return to the government of the 1870s.  Would Barry Goldwater say we didn't need a Federal Reserve Bank?   

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[bedstuy]

When I say gadfly I mean all of Ron Paul's beliefs about monetary policy and his desire to return to the government of the 1870s.  Would Barry Goldwater say we didn't need a Federal Reserve Bank?   

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't know how much to draw from that one quote.

It's definitely true that Goldwater drew support from John Birch Society types that believed the  economic conspiracy theories about international jew bankers controlling the world.

[Goldwater]

I think that, if he was alive in 2012, Barry Goldwater would vote for Gary Johnson. While his foreign policy doesn't exactly match Johnson's, I think his disagreement with Romney on social issues & Obama on economic issues would outweigh that.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Neither, he was a complex guy and there are both things I respect about him and things that disgust me about him.  From what I've read, he seems like a pretty principled guy who was willing to both take unpopular positions and stand up to powerful factions in his party (such as the religious right).  However, he also had some pretty horrible positions and while principle is all well and good, opposing something like The Civil Rights Act was a pretty HP thing to do.  The fact that he might not have opposed it b/c of racism (though we'll never know for sure) is not an excuse, merely an explanation.  At a certain point, people like Goldwater still bare a level of responsibility for the implications of the positions which they take.  Actions have consequences and good intentions do not absolve an individual of responsibility for the consequences of their actions.  For that reason, if forced to choose I'd lean HP, but honestly, I don't think Goldwater fits neatly into a FF or HP box.