Opinion of unions

[Peter the Lefty]

More often than not, freedom fighters.  Though teacher's unions can range from being the greatest freedom fighters to the most horrible, unreasonable organizations you can imagine.  In terms of tenure, that is.  And the American Musicians Union can be kind of dogmatic as well.  But that god they exist, nonetheless.

[© tweed]

Conceptually, massive FO. Range from massive FO to moderate HO in practice. I'll always full-throatedly support the concept and principle.

"ultra-leftism", "ultra-left idealism"

[TNF]

Massive FOs in theory and in practice. The shortcomings of unions, both private and public, tend to deal with the fact that they're operating in environments hostile to their existence 99.9% of the time, at least in the United States. And even so, the worst of the worst in terms of corruption or lawbreaking (which, it should be noted are both very rare) are nothing compared to the organized money power that corrupts and controls American political and economic life.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Conceptually, massive FO. Range from massive FO to moderate HO in practice. I'll always full-throatedly support the concept and principle.

"ultra-leftism", "ultra-left idealism"

Eh? I thought I was kind of hedging my approbation in that post--more than I hedge it in my interior thoughts on the subject, which are pretty much exclusively pro-union.

[Franzl]

HO.

Guess you and the South are pleased with your low wages and lack of benefits?

[Miles]

Ahhh..I deleted my post because I wanted to add to it. Anywho, HO.

[Franzl]

Ahhh..I deleted my post because I wanted to add to it. Anywho, HO.

I would be rather interested in your reasoning.

[LastVoter]

Ahhh..I deleted my post because I wanted to add to it. Anywho, HO.

I would be rather interested in your reasoning.

I'm interested to know why he voted for Snowstalker.

[Marokai Backbeat]

The diminishing influence of the labor movement and the death of the private sector union has led to the slow death of the middle class; it is no coincidence that lower and middle glass income growth stagnated at roughly the same point in time that the labor movement started to die out. Public sector unions are more of a gray area that I'm not necessarily interested in quibbling with (though I still support their existence) but the useful idiots who bemoan trade unions and are stuck in wage stagnation have only themselves to blame.

So, I will say FO.

[TNF]

Ahhh..I deleted my post because I wanted to add to it. Anywho, HO.

And you call yourself a Democrat?

[dead0man]

Unions are their own worst enemy.  Just like anti-American types have a never ending supply of actions by US service members to paint all of them in bad light or how Zionists have a never ending supply of actions by Palestinians to paint them in a bad light, it's the same way with unions.  There is a never ending supply of stories people have experienced themselves, stories they've heard from trusted sources, stories in the press, stories in book and on film and stories from union members themselves telling a million different things unions do that are bad for unions.  Of course every non "owner" should love unions, their reason for existence benefits everybody (except the owners), they are designed to help the little guy.  What they actually do is shut down industry because the clerks need a raise from $165k to $180k.  Make sure they get a 15 minute break every hour.  Ensuring that a teacher that sexually assaulted a kid is still getting his teacher pay.  And a million more that we all have, even the most insane union supporter has horror stories about sh**tty union behavior.

[TNF]

Unions are their own worst enemy.  Just like anti-American types have a never ending supply of actions by US service members to paint all of them in bad light or how Zionists have a never ending supply of actions by Palestinians to paint them in a bad light, it's the same way with unions.  There is a never ending supply of stories people have experienced themselves, stories they've heard from trusted sources, stories in the press, stories in book and on film and stories from union members themselves telling a million different things unions do that are bad for unions.  Of course every non "owner" should love unions, their reason for existence benefits everybody (except the owners), they are designed to help the little guy.  What they actually do is shut down industry because the clerks need a raise from $165k to $180k.  Make sure they get a 15 minute break every hour.  Ensuring that a teacher that sexually assaulted a kid is still getting his teacher pay.  And a million more that we all have, even the most insane union supporter has horror stories about sh**tty union behavior.

And yet again, for every million of these supposed "horror stories" about unions out there, I'd wager that there are ten million employer horror stories. Without unions, the American worker would still be living in a company town and being paid with company scrip after their fifteen hour shift.

[k-onmmunist]

freedom organization, though effectively useless now.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

For me, it all depends, it's not a clear cut principle. Sometimes they'll act for good, sometimes for ill.

This.

[dead0man]

Without unions, the American worker would still be living in a company town and being paid with company scrip after their fifteen hour shift.

While I'm sure you believe it, is this something most pro-union people believe to be true?

[k-onmmunist]

Without unions, the American worker would still be living in a company town and being paid with company scrip after their fifteen hour shift.

While I'm sure you believe it, is this something most pro-union people believe to be true?

yes.

[TNF]

Without unions, the American worker would still be living in a company town and being paid with company scrip after their fifteen hour shift.

While I'm sure you believe it, is this something most people who know sh*t about American history believe to be true?

Fixed that for you, and yes.

[© tweed]

Conceptually, massive FO. Range from massive FO to moderate HO in practice. I'll always full-throatedly support the concept and principle.

"ultra-leftism", "ultra-left idealism"

Eh? I thought I was kind of hedging my approbation in that post--more than I hedge it in my interior thoughts on the subject, which are pretty much exclusively pro-union.

defending unions as an abstract idea is useless and is ultra-leftism.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Conceptually, massive FO. Range from massive FO to moderate HO in practice. I'll always full-throatedly support the concept and principle.

Nathan nails it, as usual.

[opebo]

Massive FOs in theory and in practice. The shortcomings of unions, both private and public, tend to deal with the fact that they're operating in environments hostile to their existence 99.9% of the time, at least in the United States. And even so, the worst of the worst in terms of corruption or lawbreaking (which, it should be noted are both very rare) are nothing compared to the organized money power that corrupts and controls American political and economic life.

Beautifully said sir!  So much so it prompted me to go read your posting history.  I'm ashamed to confess I didn't know you prior to this revelatory post.

Without unions, the American worker would still be living in a company town and being paid with company scrip after their fifteen hour shift.

While I'm sure you believe it, is this something most pro-union people believe to be true?

obviously any non-ignorant believes this, dead0man.  Don't you understand anything about capitalism, or China, or the profit motive, or law, or 'private property'?

[politicallefty]

The diminishing influence of the labor movement and the death of the private sector union has led to the slow death of the middle class; it is no coincidence that lower and middle glass income growth stagnated at roughly the same point in time that the labor movement started to die out. Public sector unions are more of a gray area that I'm not necessarily interested in quibbling with (though I still support their existence) but the useful idiots who bemoan trade unions and are stuck in wage stagnation have only themselves to blame.

So, I will say FO.

These are my thoughts as well. In the absence of more adequate pro-worker legislation, they are vital to a strong middle class. A federal prohibition on "right-to-work" laws and passage of the Employee Free Choice Act would be big steps in the right direction.

[Phony Moderate]

It was not so long ago that this forum was staunchly anti-union....

[opebo]

It was not so long ago that this forum was staunchly anti-union....

Belief in progress only leads to heartbreak, Hank.  Though I suppose that wouldn't really be 'progress' in context.

[SPC]

Generally not a fan of cartels in any industry, labor being no exception.

[7,052,770]

I'm going to be a good liberal and say FO, but admittedly I have absolutely no exposure to them, and really "don't get it" when it comes to the issues.  I applaud the struggle against the greedy corporations of course.