Travesty: Abhisit Vejjajiva charged with 'murder'

[politicus]

Abhisit Vejjajiva, much missed Thai Democrat prime minister who cleared the streets of Bangkok of red mobs, has been charged with 'murder' by the Red government of Thaksin!.

Sickening.  One can only hope...

I am a bit surprised you like this guy. I know he stabilized and improved the economy, but you don't seems to be the kind of person that rewards politicians for making capitalism work.
His record regarding human rights and freedom of the press was pretty bad and he can hardly be described as a leftist or champion of the little guy. His governmet was less corrupt than Thaksins, but thats not saying much.
So do you simply consider him less horrible than Thaksin & Co. or do you actually like him?

[politicus]

I would say that ideally laws should punish customers and pimps, while leaving prostitutes alone (ideally, offering them opportunities for another professional orientation).

Sweden has largely gone in that direction.  Indeed, it generally has chosen throw out the idea that men can do whatever they like sexually with women and not worry about the consequences of their bad behavior, as a certain Australian who is now a guest of the Ecuadoran government has found out much to his displeasure.

Doesn't Sweden has more male prostitutes than female, through?

Probably, but I haven't seen a report on it. I know we do in Denmark and gay prostitution is generally very high in Scandinavian countries.
I don't think it really changes the various ethical dilemmas much whether or not the prostitutes are female or male.

[politicus]

The worst approach, which is unsurprisingly the one you appear to prefer due to your own concupiscent selfishness (or selfish concupiscence, it's all the same), is the one taken by the countries in blue on this map.

What's wrong with banning organized (ie, exploited) prostitution?

The prostitute are charged for soliciting customers, the customer isn't charged, as he did nothing illegal.

In Canada, note than the Ontario courts stuck down the law, Government is appealing.

That sucks, yeah. However, I would say that ideally laws should punish customers and pimps, while leaving prostitutes alone (ideally, offering them opportunities for another professional orientation).

Why treat potentially distasteful manual labor involving a vagina any differently from potentially distasteful manual labor involving one's hands? Surely you don't advocate saving female janitors or factory workers and "offering them opportunities for professional orientation"? At least a prostitute gets paid considerably more (a prostitute in a place with sensible laws, at least).

Short answer is that selling your body is very damaging to your health, at least if you do it over an extended period of time. There are severe long term psychological effects of being a prostitute. The myth of the happy whore is indeed a myth.
As I understand it the main problem is that prostitutes block the contact between body and mind when they are with a customer to endure it, this practice is psychologically very problematic in the long run. Prostitutes are also very exposed to violence, rape and other kinds of abuse.
The problems factory workers encounter are psychical and generally much less severe.

[politicus]

Why treat potentially distasteful manual labor involving a vagina any differently from potentially distasteful manual labor involving one's hands? Surely you don't advocate saving female janitors or factory workers and "offering them opportunities for professional orientation"? At least a prostitute gets paid considerably more (a prostitute in a place with sensible laws, at least).

Short answer is that selling your body is very damaging to your health, at least if you do it over an extended period of time. There are severe long term psychological effects of being a prostitute. The myth of the happy whore is indeed a myth.
As I understand it the main problem is that prostitutes block the contact between body and mind when they are with a customer to endure it, this practice is psychologically very problematic in the long run. Prostitutes are also very exposed to violence, rape and other kinds of abuse.
The problems factory workers encounter are psychical and generally much less severe.

There are plenty of jobs that are damaging to your health, both physically and psychologically. Scrubbing toilets for your entire life isn't very fun. Working in a coal mine isn't fun. I don't see anyone advocating that we outlaw those jobs or find all the janitors and coal miners new professions. A lot of prostitution is exploitative (though far from all; there are many prostitutes who enjoy their job or at least tolerate it as much as anyone with a normal job does theirs), but so are many other manual labor occupations. The only reason that a distinction exists is because of out-dated moralistic concerns that constrain sexual behavior and expression.  

There are problems with the working conditions of prostitutes and with sex slavery/trafficking. Those are real concerns. But these are analogous to safety concerns or slavery in any other profession. Prostitution, in and of itself, is not the problem.

Did you not read what I wrote or are you being deliberately dense? I am not talking about whether it is fun(!), degrading or anything like that. It causes severe long term psychological damages, this is well documented. You simply cant compare the effects of long term prostitution to that of unskilled menial jobs.
Do some research on this before you jump to conclusions.

Here is a short description from a British organisation working with prostitutes, but there is a ton of research out there if you care to enlighten yourself.

Psychological Impact:

Most psychologists believe the long-term psychological harm resulting from prostitution is comparable to that from rape or domestic violence, 76% of those involved in prostitution experience some form of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

The core experiences of violence and psychological trauma associated with prostitution are disempowerment and disconnection with others. Internally these experiences often cause a ‘split’ between the mind, body and spirit.

Individuals involved in prostitution often develop complex coping mechanisms and rituals to minimise their pain and brokenness:
 Dissociative disorders (e.g. disconnection, distancing)
 Anxiety disorders (e.g. fixation, memory loss, panic attacks, flashbacks)
 Substance abuse (leading to long term addiction and mental illness)
 Sleeping disorders – oversleeping, insomnia
 Depression
 Self harm
 Eating Disorders
 Obsessive-compulsive behaviour

[politicus]

Also there's no need to be so condescending.

Well, maybe but you need to understand that it is very provocative when you talk about prostitution in terms of "not all jobs are fun" etc. Whatever you write about prostitution please remember that selling your body is a fundamentally different thing from selling your labour. Using that comparison is both disrespectful and absurd.  

I will admit that you can find several studies that disagree with the majority view.

One important thing to consider when evaluating studies of prostitution is that the worst psychological problems with prostitution are not related to shame, stigma etc. but to the simple fact that a prostitute has to have sex with someone he or she doesn't want to have sex with. In order to cope with this you need to disconnect your mind from your body and it is this process that in the long run is very harmfull and dangerous. Since we are talking about long term injuries it is not necessarily relevant how the women (and men) currently working in the sex industry are doing, since they may not yet have been damaged enough to have the problems.
Remember that psychological damages can potentially occur decades after the actual event.
(think war veterans, victims of violent crime etc.).

Another problem is that many prostitutes are former victims of sexual abuse and they have already had to build up the defence mechanisms I was talking about in my last post in their childhood making the consequences of having to prolong this process in adult life even more problematic.

Prostitution is a complex issue. It can never be fully eradicated and I am not necessarily against legalization (for people over 21, you are generally not mature enough to make that choice earlier) under all circumstances since it might be the least bad option.
If I were to support legalization it should be combined with an active effort to discourage young people from entering into prostitution and attractive exit offers to the ones already in the trade offering an alternative (including rehab programs for drug addicts) + a strict control with the industry including a license to buy prostitutes given only to people without a police record of being charged or convicted of violent and/or sex related crime.
This is hardly realistic in a US context, where the authorities are not exactly known to be generous regarding social work and it would obviously create a black market for unlicensed and underage prostitution, but at least make it safer for the regulated trade. The penalties for customers enganging in illegal prostitution should be very harsh in this scenario (comparable to rape).
 
What made me angry was therefore not your support for legalization, but this callous comparison of menial work and prostitution and the general carefree attitude in your post.