Ireland

[Jake]

Could someone explain the poltical orientation of the Irish and North Irish parties.  Specifically Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, and the DUP.  Thanks

[Capey]

Could someone explain the poltical orientation of the Irish and North Irish parties.  Specifically Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, and the DUP.  Thanks

Republic
FF: Economically centre-left, socially very conservative
FG: Economically centre-right, socially centre
PD: Thatcherites, in coalition with FF
LAB: centre-left
GREEN: eviromentalist
Sinn Fein: nationalist-socialist

Ulster
UUP: centre-right unionist
DUP: right wing loyalist
SDLP: centre-left, split between Catholic unionists and nationalists
Sinn Fein: Republican nationalist-socialists
Alliance: all-religion liberal party, allied with the British Liberal Democrats

[Jake]

Thanks, I see your from South Africa.  What are the major parties other than the ANC?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Thanks, I see your from South Africa.  What are the major parties other than the ANC?

None

There are plenty of minor parties though

[Capey]

Thanks, I see your from South Africa.  What are the major parties other than the ANC?

There's the Democratic Alliance. They are a basic liberal party and get most of thier support from the whites. The Inkatha Freedom Party is a Zulu party. The National Party is a conservative party that is about to break up. They ruled SA during the Apartheid era. They used to get most of thier support from Afrikaaners, now most of thier support is from coloureds. I vote for them in the provincials.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

They are a basic liberal party and get most of thier support from the whites.

Which is kinda ironic

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Which is very ironic

[Capey]

They are a basic liberal party and get most of thier support from the whites.

Which is kinda ironic

How so? It is descended from the Progressives who wanted to ban Apartheid but wanted a free-market. Most blacks here are either hardcore socialist or communist.

This is why I don't like to talk about South Africa with foreigners. They generally have these stereotypes that all white South Africans, especially Afrikaaners, are ignorant racists.

[socaldem]

I went to south africa as a part of a study abroad program and I would strongly dispute your characterization of the ANC. 

To suggest that the ANC is mostly communist and anti-free market is absurd!  First, it is a slander to ANC leaders like Madiba!  Secondly, while their are significant elements in the ANC that are socialist/populist (which I think is often a very good thing!), the party is essentially catch-all and includes many liberal-reformers. 

I would have to agree with you, however, that Mbeki is too populist and that his policies on AIDS, where he has often obstructed efforts to use modern medicine to help victims because of his beliefs in traditional medicine, have caused significant harm.  Moreover, with the huge unemployment and crime problems (which, of course, harm the poorest the most), I see the need for reforms in the restrictive labor market and law enforcement.  However,  there are significant elements within the ANC calling for these things.   Ideally, some blacks would defect from the ANC, but while the alternative is the NP, which, is the error, not to the progressive party but to the apartheid-era NP, I don't see that happening. 

I have no idea how you can suggest the NP is descended from Helen Suzman's anti-apartheid progressives.  If their is a descendent of that party, its pretty clearly the Democratic Alliance.

I agree that it is unfair for Americans/Europeans to condemn south african whites/coloureds as ignorant racists.  In fact, I would suggest that such condemnations are ultimately hypocritical.  In south africa, the white/coloured/indian elites are clinging to the vestiges of first world privilege in a country made up of an impoverished people.  Whiel I don't think that the political behavior of the elite south African minorities is moral or acceptable, it certainly is not that much different from the behavior of other first worlders who, fortefied with citizenship and national barriers, are more easily protected from the poor masses.

[Capey]

I have no idea how you can suggest the NP is descended from Helen Suzman's anti-apartheid progressives.  If their is a descendent of that party, its pretty clearly the Democratic Alliance.

I didn't say that! I said that the DA was descended from the Progs

On your other points, I'll just say we'll have to agree to disagree

[Jake]

Thanks for the info everyone :)

[Kodratos]

I hate Irish politics. The Irish are a bunch of raving left-wingers who elect conservative government. It's insane.

[Јas]

I hate Irish politics. The Irish are a bunch of raving left-wingers who elect conservative government. It's insane.

Well thats a wonderfully adept and astute analysis without sweeping generalisations if I ever saw one!

[Kodratos]

I hate Irish politics. The Irish are a bunch of raving left-wingers who elect conservative government. It's insane.

Well thats a wonderfully adept and astute analysis without sweeping generalisations if I ever saw one!

Is it not true?! I've yet to find a real Irish right-winger online, and yet the Irish government is very right-wing. How exactly do you explain this?

[minionofmidas]

They are a basic liberal party and get most of thier support from the whites.

Which is kinda ironic

How so? It is descended from the Progressives who wanted to ban Apartheid but wanted a free-market. Most blacks here are either hardcore socialist or communist.

well, the point is that the average South African White, going by voting results, was hardly progressive back then...
my own South African relatives, btw, vote ANC in provincials, DA in nationals.
I guess that makes it easy to figure out what province they live in.