#WhyIsMyPaycheckLessThisWeek
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Author Topic: #WhyIsMyPaycheckLessThisWeek  (Read 3130 times)
tmthforu94
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« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2013, 02:32:10 PM »

Also: does anybody know what #tcot stands for?
The conservatives of Twitter.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2013, 02:33:48 PM »

Anyone else figure that the "mainstream news media" (sigh) are complicit in this whole mess?

The same accusation could be said of most "messes" really.
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opebo
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« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2013, 03:23:34 PM »

What is twitter and tweet?
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Small Business Owner of Any Repute
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« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2013, 03:40:43 PM »

Also: does anybody know what #tcot stands for?
The conservatives of Twitter.

I was always under the impression it was "Top Conservatives on Twitter." Same gist, of course.
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Nathan
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« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2013, 10:55:53 AM »


A way for hep youngsters to talk to each other that a lot of people who aren't hep youngsters use. It's designed in such a way as to hinder, but not necessarily render entirely impossible, the development of complex thoughts.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2013, 11:04:50 AM »


A watered down version of the facial book, you see.
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Torie
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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2013, 01:34:13 PM »

All of you red avatars need to decide whether you think tax cuts are good or bad.

False dichotomy. Not all tax cuts/hikes are the same. Don't be obtuse.

You're right. They're not all the same. This relates to a tax that actually funds a specific program.

The social security fund has been looted for decades so there is no point pretending payroll taxes are only used to fund social security and medicare. It's a question of who gets taxed. Due to this deal, most working people will have to pay 2% more while income taxes won't rise for those making even $350,000 a year. And a good bit of that income (even assuming it is from both spouses earning equally) is not subject to the payroll tax. Why don't the Democrats propose raising the cap on payroll taxes? Oh that's right, because they are pussies.

Sbane, you just can't resist embracing that most wrong headed notion that earned income should be taxed at a higher rate than non capital gain investment income, eh?  Punish the upper middle class on their earned income (those making 100K to 200K per year), and punish them some more! This notion is one of the dumbest ideas the Dem Left has ever had really.  Dumb!

I am perfectly fine with decoupling payroll taxes from SS, and dissolving the SS "trust fund" and making SS an old age pension plan, even though much of the Dem party is itself opposed to that notion, because they want this entitlement to have the safe harbor moniker that it has been "earned" and therefore is just a mandatory savings plan, that becomes inviable from the normal budgetary process. But don't F up the tax system to do it, darn it!
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Sbane
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« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2013, 03:24:47 PM »

All of you red avatars need to decide whether you think tax cuts are good or bad.

False dichotomy. Not all tax cuts/hikes are the same. Don't be obtuse.

You're right. They're not all the same. This relates to a tax that actually funds a specific program.

The social security fund has been looted for decades so there is no point pretending payroll taxes are only used to fund social security and medicare. It's a question of who gets taxed. Due to this deal, most working people will have to pay 2% more while income taxes won't rise for those making even $350,000 a year. And a good bit of that income (even assuming it is from both spouses earning equally) is not subject to the payroll tax. Why don't the Democrats propose raising the cap on payroll taxes? Oh that's right, because they are pussies.

Sbane, you just can't resist embracing that most wrong headed notion that earned income should be taxed at a higher rate than non capital gain investment income, eh?  Punish the upper middle class on their earned income (those making 100K to 200K per year), and punish them some more! This notion is one of the dumbest ideas the Dem Left has ever had really.  Dumb!

When Social security was designed, 90% of income was taxed by the SS tax. Now it has gone down to 80% as there are a lot more people earning more than the threshold. Actually incomes rise pretty fast beyond that threshold because suddenly companies don't have to pay 6% on top of that. So why shouldn't the cap be raised to cover 90% of income again? Moreover, why shouldn't it just cover 100% of income? I can understand the fairness argument, but why doesn't it make economic sense? I don't know if you were trying to make that argument.
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opebo
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« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2013, 03:32:29 PM »

Sbane, you just can't resist embracing that most wrong headed notion that earned income should be taxed at a higher rate than non capital gain investment income, eh?  Punish the upper middle class on their earned income (those making 100K to 200K per year), and punish them some more! This notion is one of the dumbest ideas the Dem Left has ever had really.  Dumb!

I am perfectly fine with decoupling payroll taxes from SS, and dissolving the SS "trust fund" and making SS an old age pension plan, even though much of the Dem party is itself opposed to that notion, because they want this entitlement to have the safe harbor moniker that it has been "earned" and therefore is just a mandatory savings plan, that becomes inviable from the normal budgetary process. But don't F up the tax system to do it, darn it!

Capital gains should be subject to payroll tax as well, Torie.
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Sbane
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« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2013, 03:51:11 PM »

Torie, if you were trying to compare capital gains vs income, yes I don't think it is fair that people get to sit on their ass and make money either. In fact, haven't I ranted about that before? Still, as long as short term investments get taxed at the regular rate of income (and tack on payroll taxes on it as well), I am fine with a lower rate for long term investments. We do want investments in the economy, don't we?
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Torie
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« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2013, 06:25:39 PM »
« Edited: January 09, 2013, 06:32:29 PM by Torie »

All of you red avatars need to decide whether you think tax cuts are good or bad.

False dichotomy. Not all tax cuts/hikes are the same. Don't be obtuse.

You're right. They're not all the same. This relates to a tax that actually funds a specific program.

The social security fund has been looted for decades so there is no point pretending payroll taxes are only used to fund social security and medicare. It's a question of who gets taxed. Due to this deal, most working people will have to pay 2% more while income taxes won't rise for those making even $350,000 a year. And a good bit of that income (even assuming it is from both spouses earning equally) is not subject to the payroll tax. Why don't the Democrats propose raising the cap on payroll taxes? Oh that's right, because they are pussies.

Sbane, you just can't resist embracing that most wrong headed notion that earned income should be taxed at a higher rate than non capital gain investment income, eh?  Punish the upper middle class on their earned income (those making 100K to 200K per year), and punish them some more! This notion is one of the dumbest ideas the Dem Left has ever had really.  Dumb!

When Social security was designed, 90% of income was taxed by the SS tax. Now it has gone down to 80% as there are a lot more people earning more than the threshold. Actually incomes rise pretty fast beyond that threshold because suddenly companies don't have to pay 6% on top of that. So why shouldn't the cap be raised to cover 90% of income again? Moreover, why shouldn't it just cover 100% of income? I can understand the fairness argument, but why doesn't it make economic sense? I don't know if you were trying to make that argument.

Oh, that is a different issue. The payroll tax is paid with after tax dollars, so when you get the money back, in theory you should only pay tax on the imputed interest earned over time, not return of principal. 80% is a pretty good approximation of the breakdown - 80% interest, 20% principal. If we make SS into a welfare program, paid our of the general tax fund, probably higher income folks should get nothing, and one gets gradually more as one's income goes down (with tax free income included this time for means testing purposes). If SS is means tested, there is no good reason to tax it at all - that is money just going out of one pocket and into another, and then back to the original pocket - from Tinker to Taylor to Chance.

Economics is just such a beautiful thing isn't it, and even more beautiful, is that I am quite talented at it really.  Tongue
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Torie
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« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2013, 06:30:57 PM »

Torie, if you were trying to compare capital gains vs income, yes I don't think it is fair that people get to sit on their ass and make money either. In fact, haven't I ranted about that before? Still, as long as short term investments get taxed at the regular rate of income (and tack on payroll taxes on it as well), I am fine with a lower rate for long term investments. We do want investments in the economy, don't we?

So you think dividends and interest should be taxed at a lower rate than earned income for a given individual?  Anyway, if you want them all (excluding long term capital gains which ain't dividends and interest) taxed the same (makes sense to me), I guess what you are saying is that everyone should have their tax rate jacked up by about 7% or something. Man, are you turning into a tax revenue addict sbane? When did you so fall head over heels in love with such a robust social safety net?  Are you sublimating or something?  Tongue
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The Mikado
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« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2013, 07:10:12 PM »


A way for hep youngsters to talk to each other that a lot of people who aren't hep youngsters use. It's designed in such a way as to hinder, but not necessarily render entirely impossible, the development of complex thoughts.

I was under the impression that Twitter was always for old people.  It's always John McCain and such that develop large Twitter presences.  Young people are an incidental side market.
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badgate
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« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2013, 07:30:33 PM »

*sigh* I thought we left ironically-pretending-to-not-know-what-a-social networking-website-is behind in 2007?
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Nathan
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« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2013, 08:40:02 PM »


A way for hep youngsters to talk to each other that a lot of people who aren't hep youngsters use. It's designed in such a way as to hinder, but not necessarily render entirely impossible, the development of complex thoughts.

I was under the impression that Twitter was always for old people.  It's always John McCain and such that develop large Twitter presences.  Young people are an incidental side market.

You might be right. I'm honestly not sure.
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Sbane
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« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2013, 11:22:01 AM »

All of you red avatars need to decide whether you think tax cuts are good or bad.

False dichotomy. Not all tax cuts/hikes are the same. Don't be obtuse.

You're right. They're not all the same. This relates to a tax that actually funds a specific program.

The social security fund has been looted for decades so there is no point pretending payroll taxes are only used to fund social security and medicare. It's a question of who gets taxed. Due to this deal, most working people will have to pay 2% more while income taxes won't rise for those making even $350,000 a year. And a good bit of that income (even assuming it is from both spouses earning equally) is not subject to the payroll tax. Why don't the Democrats propose raising the cap on payroll taxes? Oh that's right, because they are pussies.

Sbane, you just can't resist embracing that most wrong headed notion that earned income should be taxed at a higher rate than non capital gain investment income, eh?  Punish the upper middle class on their earned income (those making 100K to 200K per year), and punish them some more! This notion is one of the dumbest ideas the Dem Left has ever had really.  Dumb!

When Social security was designed, 90% of income was taxed by the SS tax. Now it has gone down to 80% as there are a lot more people earning more than the threshold. Actually incomes rise pretty fast beyond that threshold because suddenly companies don't have to pay 6% on top of that. So why shouldn't the cap be raised to cover 90% of income again? Moreover, why shouldn't it just cover 100% of income? I can understand the fairness argument, but why doesn't it make economic sense? I don't know if you were trying to make that argument.

Oh, that is a different issue. The payroll tax is paid with after tax dollars, so when you get the money back, in theory you should only pay tax on the imputed interest earned over time, not return of principal. 80% is a pretty good approximation of the breakdown - 80% interest, 20% principal. If we make SS into a welfare program, paid our of the general tax fund, probably higher income folks should get nothing, and one gets gradually more as one's income goes down (with tax free income included this time for means testing purposes). If SS is means tested, there is no good reason to tax it at all - that is money just going out of one pocket and into another, and then back to the original pocket - from Tinker to Taylor to Chance.

Economics is just such a beautiful thing isn't it, and even more beautiful, is that I am quite talented at it really.  Tongue

What are you even talking about? This is a post of a lawyer's, not an economist. Tongue

What I am saying is that 90% of earned income used to be taxed by the payroll tax when it was first set up. Now it has gone down to 80% of income. Of course if we pretend that Social Security is not a welfare program then that additional income should not be taxed. But there is no reason to do such a thing. The fund has been used for Republican wars and other spending by both parties and so the payroll tax should be looked at as any other tax contributing to the general fund. Of course, the pretense of it being a retirement account is important in order to keep up it's popularity.

Torie, if you were trying to compare capital gains vs income, yes I don't think it is fair that people get to sit on their ass and make money either. In fact, haven't I ranted about that before? Still, as long as short term investments get taxed at the regular rate of income (and tack on payroll taxes on it as well), I am fine with a lower rate for long term investments. We do want investments in the economy, don't we?

So you think dividends and interest should be taxed at a lower rate than earned income for a given individual?  Anyway, if you want them all (excluding long term capital gains which ain't dividends and interest) taxed the same (makes sense to me), I guess what you are saying is that everyone should have their tax rate jacked up by about 7% or something. Man, are you turning into a tax revenue addict sbane? When did you so fall head over heels in love with such a robust social safety net?  Are you sublimating or something?  Tongue

I want high federal taxes and low state taxes. Those are the consequences of a federal system. And the feds should either fund state programs completely, like with the medicaid expansion, or at least heavily subsidize it. And yes, programs like Social Security and Medicare, especially Medicare, are very important. I don't support welfare without trying to force them to find some work (if they are able to), but I certainly do support Medicare. Indeed, I support a bismarck style system for all of us with companies competing against each other to lower insurance rates which we buy on an individual market. Subsidies help out the poor and the middle class afford those, and those are paid for by even higher payroll taxes which like the current tax would be levied on both employees and employers.
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memphis
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« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2013, 12:04:31 PM »

Perhaps Sbane wants higher taxes because, unlike the GOP, he actually gives an Inks about the deficit and securing priorities for the future. And I'd be all for Torie's decoupling of payroll taxes and SS benefits except that that rest of the government currently owes SS a crap ton of money. We'd need to return to the sustainable pre-1980s tax rates to get back to a level playing field, and nobody is willing to propose that. Heaven forfend the well to do ($100k+) and the superrich (250k+) pay a reasonable amount in taxes.

As for this "Economics is just such a beautiful thing isn't it, and even more beautiful, is that I am quite talented at it really." all I can say is Roll Eyes
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2013, 12:17:52 PM »

A bit off-topic, but a friend of mine told me this:

"You know, I think the United States might be one of the only nations in the history of our world where the wealthy have the gall to say that they're the ones being oppressed."
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2013, 12:24:08 PM »

A bit off-topic, but a friend of mine told me this:

"You know, I think the United States might be one of the only nations in the history of our world where the wealthy have the gall to say that they're the ones being oppressed."
Alas, no. The more power an identifiable minority group has, the better it is able to protest its perceived or real discrimination...
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2013, 12:36:48 PM »

A bit off-topic, but a friend of mine told me this:

"You know, I think the United States might be one of the only nations in the history of our world where the wealthy have the gall to say that they're the ones being oppressed."
Alas, no. The more power an identifiable minority group has, the better it is able to protest its perceived or real discrimination...

True, I suppose. It just seems that the American riches are rather extra-obnoxious in their persecution complex. Tongue

Money can buy you power, but it can't buy you happiness.
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Harry
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« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2013, 02:10:10 PM »

I've always thought of a young person's alternative to Facebook, which became terrible once our parents joined.  I'm not on Facebook anymore, and most ofmy friends aren't either. From what I hear, its gotten even worse over the last year.
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