Ryan AGAIN wants to force Raped Women to give birth, outlaw abortion/IVF/planB

[BluegrassBlueVote]

I'm sorry but those babies are people too.

A baby? Yeah, that's a person. But a zygote? No. Not even close.

Religion and politics, man. Too often a destructive combo.

[Sopranos Republican]

Just look at Ireland

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/14/ireland-woman-dies-after-abortion-refusal

I heard about this, and my first thought was, yes this was handled very poorly. It was a tragedy, for sure, but this is not what happens most of the time in Ireland. Mothers dying during pregnancy happens far more often in the United States, the United Kingdom, and in Canada, than in Ireland.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Is this surprising anyone? You do know there are a number of politicians in this country that take the pro-life stance on abortion, right? Is this some big shock to you?

Yes.

...And you've been studying American politics how long? Do I act all surprised that, lo and behold, in the post-Cold War era, France elected a president that's part of a "Socialist" party? And I don't pretend to know sh#t about French politics. Regardless of how "disgusting" and "inhumane" a position of someone might be in X country, don't act like this isn't par for the course in X country.

[Franzl]

Is this surprising anyone? You do know there are a number of politicians in this country that take the pro-life stance on abortion, right? Is this some big shock to you?

Yes.

...And you've been studying American politics how long? Do I act all surprised that, lo and behold, in the post-Cold War era, France elected a president that's part of a "Socialist" party? And I don't pretend to know sh#t about French politics. Regardless of how "disgusting" and "inhumane" a position of someone might be in X country, don't act like this isn't par for the course in X country.

Paul Ryan's position is not in the American mainstream.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Is this surprising anyone? You do know there are a number of politicians in this country that take the pro-life stance on abortion, right? Is this some big shock to you?

Yes.

...And you've been studying American politics how long? Do I act all surprised that, lo and behold, in the post-Cold War era, France elected a president that's part of a "Socialist" party? And I don't pretend to know sh#t about French politics. Regardless of how "disgusting" and "inhumane" a position of someone might be in X country, don't act like this isn't par for the course in X country.

Paul Ryan's position is not in the American mainstream.

Of course not. There are in fact a multiplicity of American politicians well outside their country's own mainstream, as I'm sure is the same for a large number of other nations. The fact remains however that in America, there is a vast amount of right-wing politicians that, in some form or another, would like abortion restricted. Just because this is the absolutist stance in the issue, and, I understand, offends the sensibilities of a large amount of liberals, doesn't mean we should pretend to be surprised that a stance like this exists.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

I, for one, am surprised this stance exists in a candidate that is perceived to have national aspirations and is by all accounts a very intelligent human being. Roughly 20% of America supports his stance.

[pbrower2a]

How long before some nut bag suggests that anyone who performs an abortion or has an abortion should be charged with murder including victims of rape??

The woman doesn't get charged with murder, as she's not the one who pulls the trigger. She gets charged with hiring a hit man

Hiring the hit-man makes one 100% culpable in any murder that results.   

Date of scheduled execution    State            Victim name            Inmate name    Status
May 1, 2001                        Oklahoma    James Plantz, 33     Marilyn Plantz    executed

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/Pending/01/may01.htm

Marilyn Kay Plantz was executed by lethal injection for the murder of her husband for gain.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Ireland also has a public healthcare system.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is this surprising anyone? You do know there are a number of politicians in this country that take the pro-life stance on abortion, right? Is this some big shock to you?

Yes.

...And you've been studying American politics how long? Do I act all surprised that, lo and behold, in the post-Cold War era, France elected a president that's part of a "Socialist" party? And I don't pretend to know sh#t about French politics. Regardless of how "disgusting" and "inhumane" a position of someone might be in X country, don't act like this isn't par for the course in X country.

Shocking =/= surprising.

[memphis]

Is this surprising anyone? You do know there are a number of politicians in this country that take the pro-life stance on abortion, right? Is this some big shock to you?

Yes.

...And you've been studying American politics how long? Do I act all surprised that, lo and behold, in the post-Cold War era, France elected a president that's part of a "Socialist" party? And I don't pretend to know sh#t about French politics. Regardless of how "disgusting" and "inhumane" a position of someone might be in X country, don't act like this isn't par for the course in X country.

Paul Ryan's position is not in the American mainstream.

The entire Republican Party is out of the mainstream. A 15% tax rate for zillionnaire hedgefund managers. A voucher Medicare system. A constitutional amendment banning and nullifying all gay marriages in every state. Another one banning abortion. Privatized Social Security accounts. No tax hikes for high earners ever no matter the circumstance. Wars that go on forever with no clear goals. These are not mainstream positions. Unfortunately, the Republicans are master salesmen and too many people vote personality and salesmanship over policy.

[Maxwell]

How long before some nut bag suggests that anyone who performs an abortion or has an abortion should be charged with murder including victims of rape??

Tim Pawlenty ran on that actually.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I, for one, am surprised this stance exists in a candidate that is perceived to have national aspirations and is by all accounts a very intelligent human being. Roughly 20% of America supports his stance.

What does intelligence have anything to do with when you believe life begins?

[BluegrassBlueVote]

I, for one, am surprised this stance exists in a candidate that is perceived to have national aspirations and is by all accounts a very intelligent human being. Roughly 20% of America supports his stance.

What does intelligence have anything to do with when you believe life begins?

It's unintelligent to flaunt that stance if you want to win a general election. At least he's not a flip-flopping phony, but Ryan is far, far off from the mainstream on this.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I, for one, am surprised this stance exists in a candidate that is perceived to have national aspirations and is by all accounts a very intelligent human being. Roughly 20% of America supports his stance.

What does intelligence have anything to do with when you believe life begins?

It's unintelligent to flaunt that stance if you want to win a general election. At least he's not a flip-flopping phony, but Ryan is far, far off from the mainstream on this.

OK, well you said you were surprised that that stance existed, not that someone was talking about such a stance.  The 2 are very different.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

I, for one, am surprised this stance exists in a candidate that is perceived to have national aspirations and is by all accounts a very intelligent human being. Roughly 20% of America supports his stance.

What does intelligence have anything to do with when you believe life begins?

It's unintelligent to flaunt that stance if you want to win a general election. At least he's not a flip-flopping phony, but Ryan is far, far off from the mainstream on this.

OK, well you said you were surprised that that stance existed, not that someone was talking about such a stance.  The 2 are very different.

I said I was surprised that the stance exists... in a serious, cerebral candidate. As for now, at least, Paul Ryan is an establishment candidate who fashions himself more seriously than the Bachmanns, Cains, and Santorums of the world, yet this is as radical a belief as can be held on an important social issue. I certainly am not surprised that there are social conservatives who agree with this line of thinking; I simply thought he would begin to distance himself from it.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I, for one, am surprised this stance exists in a candidate that is perceived to have national aspirations and is by all accounts a very intelligent human being. Roughly 20% of America supports his stance.

What does intelligence have anything to do with when you believe life begins?

It's unintelligent to flaunt that stance if you want to win a general election. At least he's not a flip-flopping phony, but Ryan is far, far off from the mainstream on this.

OK, well you said you were surprised that that stance existed, not that someone was talking about such a stance.  The 2 are very different.

I said I was surprised that the stance exists... in a serious, cerebral candidate. As for now, at least, Paul Ryan is an establishment candidate who fashions himself more seriously than the Bachmanns, Cains, and Santorums of the world, yet this is as radical a belief as can be held on an important social issue. I certainly am not surprised that there are social conservatives who agree with this line of thinking; I simply thought he would begin to distance himself from it.

The belief that life begins at conception isn't a "radical" belief.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

I, for one, am surprised this stance exists in a candidate that is perceived to have national aspirations and is by all accounts a very intelligent human being. Roughly 20% of America supports his stance.

What does intelligence have anything to do with when you believe life begins?

It's unintelligent to flaunt that stance if you want to win a general election. At least he's not a flip-flopping phony, but Ryan is far, far off from the mainstream on this.

OK, well you said you were surprised that that stance existed, not that someone was talking about such a stance.  The 2 are very different.

I said I was surprised that the stance exists... in a serious, cerebral candidate. As for now, at least, Paul Ryan is an establishment candidate who fashions himself more seriously than the Bachmanns, Cains, and Santorums of the world, yet this is as radical a belief as can be held on an important social issue. I certainly am not surprised that there are social conservatives who agree with this line of thinking; I simply thought he would begin to distance himself from it.

The belief that life begins at conception isn't a "radical" belief.

The belief that abortion shouldn't be an option for rape victims sure is. Check the polls.

[Likely Voter]

Pro-life and pro-choice are relative terms, but polling shows that the position of abortion should always be illegal or even illegal for rape is definately an extreme position, even with Republicans...here is some polling...

CNN/ORC Poll. Aug. 22-23, 2012. N=1,055 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.               
"Now I am going to read some specific situations under which an abortion might be considered. For each one, please say whether you think abortion should be legal in that situation, or illegal. . . ."

"When the woman's life is endangered"
Legal  88
Illegal   9
Depends 1
Unsure 2

"When the woman's physical health is endangered"
Legal  83
Illegal   12
Depends 2
Unsure 2
             
"When the pregnancy was caused by rape or incest"
(all respondents)
Legal  83
Illegal   14
Depends 1
Unsure 3

(just republicans)
Legal  76
Illegal   22
Depends 1
Unsure 1

http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm

[minionofmidas]

I just misread this thread's title as "Ryan AGAIN wants to force rape women", as in rape using physical force. And that despite having seen it before.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I, for one, am surprised this stance exists in a candidate that is perceived to have national aspirations and is by all accounts a very intelligent human being. Roughly 20% of America supports his stance.

What does intelligence have anything to do with when you believe life begins?

It's unintelligent to flaunt that stance if you want to win a general election. At least he's not a flip-flopping phony, but Ryan is far, far off from the mainstream on this.

OK, well you said you were surprised that that stance existed, not that someone was talking about such a stance.  The 2 are very different.

I said I was surprised that the stance exists... in a serious, cerebral candidate. As for now, at least, Paul Ryan is an establishment candidate who fashions himself more seriously than the Bachmanns, Cains, and Santorums of the world, yet this is as radical a belief as can be held on an important social issue. I certainly am not surprised that there are social conservatives who agree with this line of thinking; I simply thought he would begin to distance himself from it.

The belief that life begins at conception isn't a "radical" belief.

The belief that abortion shouldn't be an option for rape victims sure is. Check the polls.

Not if you believe that life begins at conception.  If you truly believe that life begins at conception, that means that any abortion would be killing a human being, and even killing a human being to prevent psychological damage is not a complete defense to murder.  It is an excuse, but not a justification.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Just look at Ireland

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/14/ireland-woman-dies-after-abortion-refusal

I heard about this, and my first thought was, yes this was handled very poorly. It was a tragedy, for sure, but this is not what happens most of the time in Ireland. Mothers dying during pregnancy happens far more often in the United States, the United Kingdom, and in Canada, than in Ireland.

Yet Savita would still be alive in the US, the UK and Canada. While what Ireland's maternity statistics have to do with the prohibition on abortion is unclear....

[BluegrassBlueVote]

If I'm an avid listener of Alex Jones, then it would make sense that I believe the US government is behind the 9/11 attacks.

The first part of this sentence doesn't automatically mean I hold a radical belief, but the second part sure does. Outlawing abortions even for rape/incest victims is a radical position in the year 2013.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

If I'm an avid listener of Alex Jones, then it would make sense that I believe the US government is behind the 9/11 attacks.

The first part of this sentence doesn't automatically mean I hold a radical belief, but the second part sure does. Outlawing abortions even for rape/incest victims is a radical position in the year 2013.

People can listen to Alex Jones without believing 9/11 was by the government.

Explain logically how if an unborn child is a human being, how it would be justifiable to kill that human being, even for rape or incest.  At the point that you believe that an unborn child is a human being, that child gets all of the rights afforded to other human beings.  The only logical conclusion is to say that killing the unborn child is murder, as murder is the unlawful killing of a human being.

If you allowed abortion of what you considered to be a human being, because of rape or incest, then a woman who was raped and decided to have her child, but became emotionally distraught by the child when he was age 5, could kill the child.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

Explain logically how if an unborn child is a human being, how it would be justifiable to kill that human being, even for rape or incest.

Are you asking me, or the ~80% of the public that disagrees with Paul Ryan?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Explain logically how if an unborn child is a human being, how it would be justifiable to kill that human being, even for rape or incest.

Are you asking me, or the ~80% of the public that disagrees with Paul Ryan?

You.  And ~80% of the public disagrees with Paul Ryan for different reasons.  I'd guess they all don't think life begins at conception, and if you don't believe that, then of course it would be logical to allow abortion for rape.