POPE TO ABDICATE

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Name of the Pope and what years?

[they don't love you like i love you]

Innocent some number. 12th century I believe.

...and there's never been an African or Asian Pope either. So basically there has never been a non-European Pope, ever.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Actually I was wrong about the name. It was Adrian IV.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

...and there's never been an African or Asian Pope either. So basically there has never been a non-European Pope, ever.

There have been popes from North Africa and Syria, I believe, but this was in the period when people from these areas would have been Roman or Byzantine subjects and the popes in question could well have been white by modern standards.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Ok. To be sarcastic, you folks ready for Peter the Roman.

[7,052,770]

The right wing catholic blogosphere seems to hate the cardinal from Manila, so I'm rooting for him.

[Tender Branson]

The frontrunners:

FRONTRUNNERS FOR NOW

While there are no official candidates, here are "papabili" (potential popes) the most frequently mentioned recently. The list is in alphabetical, not in order of their chances, and will probably change between now and when the conclave is held, most likely in March.

- Joao Braz de Aviz (Brazil, 65) brought fresh air to the Vatican department for religious congregations when he took over in 2011. He supports the preference for the poor in Latin America's liberation theology, but not the excesses of its advocates. Possible drawbacks include his low profile.

- Timothy Dolan, (USA, 62) became the voice of U.S. Catholicism after being named archbishop of New York in 2009. His humour and dynamism have impressed the Vatican, where both are often missing. But cardinals are wary of a "superpower pope" and his back-slapping style may be too American for some.

- Marc Ouellet (Canada, 68) is effectively the Vatican's top staff director as head of the Congregation for Bishops. He once said becoming pope "would be a nightmare." Though well connected within the Curia, the widespread secularism of his native Quebec could work against him.

- Gianfranco Ravasi (Italy, 70) has been Vatican culture minister since 2007 and represents the Church to the worlds of art, science, culture and even to atheists. This profile could hurt him if cardinals decide they need an experienced pastor rather than another professor as pope.

- Leonardo Sandri (Argentina, 69) is a "transatlantic" figure born in Buenos Aires to Italian parents. He held the third-highest Vatican post as its chief of staff in 2000-2007. But he has no pastoral experience and his job overseeing eastern churches is not a power position in Rome.

- Odilo Pedro Scherer (Brazil, 63) ranks as Latin America's strongest candidate. Archbishop of Sao Paulo, largest diocese in the largest Catholic country, he is conservative in his country but would rank as a moderate elsewhere. The rapid growth of Protestant churches in Brazil could count against him.

- Christoph Schoenborn (Austria, 67) is a former student of Pope Benedict with a pastoral touch the pontiff lacks. The Vienna archbishop has ranked as papal material since editing the Church catechism in the 1990s. But some cautious reform stands and strong dissent by some Austrian priests could hurt him.

- Angelo Scola (Italy, 71) is archbishop of Milan, a springboard to the papacy, and is many Italians' bet to win. An expert on bioethics, he also knows Islam as head of a foundation to promote Muslim-Christian understanding. His dense oratory could put off cardinals seeking a charismatic communicator.

- Luis Tagle (Philippines, 55) has a charisma often compared to that of the late Pope John Paul. He is also close to Pope Benedict after working with him at the International Theological Commission. While he has many fans, he only became a cardinal in 2012 and conclaves are wary of young candidates.

- Peter Turkson (Ghana, 64) is the top African candidate. Head of the Vatican justice and peace bureau, he is spokesman for the Church's social conscience and backs world financial reform. He showed a video criticising Muslims at a recent Vatican synod, raising doubts about how he sees Islam. 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/8291324/Latin-America-Africa-in-running-for-next-pope

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Braz de Aviz, Ravasi, Scherer, Scola, and Tagle seem like Popes I might like, and were I Catholic I could probably live with any of these except possibly Dolan and Ouellet.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Tim Dolan for Pope?? Kill me now. The Church has pushed for healthcare reform, and they should deal with the consequences of it. The contraception mandate was part of it.

Anywho; I want an African as Pope, but not the guy from Ghana. Tagle has the chance to become the next Pope John Paul if what Tender and the media says is true.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

What's your specific concern with Turkson?

[Blue3]

Didn't the popular guy from Ghana go on an anti-Muslim rant recently?

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

'Rant' might be a little strong, but, yes, it seems to have been similar to Benedict's, uh, gaffe with that quote from Manuel Palaeologos a few years back, if not somewhat worse.

[7,052,770]

If it's Dolan, I'm out.

[Keystone Phil]

If it's Dolan, I'm out.

Great. Bye. If your membership in this Church depends on who the Pope is then you really aren't a serious Roman Catholic anyway.

And don't give me the "You're a typical right winger Catholic, Phil!" You know my position on idiotic proposals that have been trumpeted by certain conservatives (like denying Eucharist to Pro Choice politicians).

[Antonio the Sixth]

Wow, didn't see that coming.

That's definitely a good thing, because it's good to have a more frequent turnover in a so conservative institution. Of course, the next Pope will probably be just as conservative as Ratzinger...

[Lief 🗽]

BREAKING: Joe Biden "not running" for the papacy

[Lief 🗽]

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/current-affairs/pope-betting

Early betting odds put the Ghanaian as the favorite, though the smart gambler's choice a cheeky 666/1 odds bet on Richard Dawkins.

[DC Al Fine]

If it's Dolan, I'm out.

Great. Bye. If your membership in this Church depends on who the Pope is then you really aren't a serious Roman Catholic anyway.

Screw this whole believing that Jesus died for you sins thing, my membership in the Catholic church is going to be decided by the leader's politics

[Lief 🗽]

Well if the leader is the earthly representative of God, then aren't his politics God's politics? And if you're not allowed to leave the church because you disagree with God's politics, what is a legitimate reason to leave it?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

What's your specific concern with Turkson?

His anti Islamic statements would not go over well at this time, especially with the whole invasion of Mali and what have you. This is not the time to be insulting African Muslims.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

What's your specific concern with Turkson?

His anti Islamic statements would not go over well at this time, especially with the whole invasion of Mali and what have you. This is not the time to be insulting African Muslims.

True. That's also why I didn't list him among the papabili I'd be actively happy with up above.

[Keystone Phil]

Well if the leader is the earthly representative of God, then aren't his politics God's politics? And if you're not allowed to leave the church because you disagree with God's politics, what is a legitimate reason to leave it?

You're "allowed" to leave for whatever reason you want. I just think leaving over policy reasons, not theological reasons, is silly. People shouldn't suddenly break their belief in the tenants of the Church because of the Church's public policy views. Harry never left over abortion, for example. Why should it be different now? Hell, he didn't even leave when Benedict won.

By the way, I take the same stance when it comes to denying Pro Choice politicians Eucharist: the Church is more than a person's views on non-theological issues.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Phil, I agree with you, more or less, but if I can play the advocatus diaboli, answer us this: Are matters such as abortion not, for the Vatican, at heart theological issues?

[Obamanation]

I really hope Schoenborn or Scola get it. Schoenborn because he is a reformer, Scola because I was born in Milan.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Phil what would be your opinion on someone who left because they wanted a church that ordained women? There's one pastor at my church who wasn't very happy with the church she was raised in's policy on female ordination (not Catholic but the same rule) but of course she got "ordained" anyway.