POPE TO ABDICATE

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Okay, reading more about Schoenborn, he looks good. Really very impressive. I'd be happy with him too.

[Simfan34]

Shameless nationalism on my part.

[RogueBeaver]

I'd guess Scola gets it. As for Benedict, I preferred JP2 but will still miss him.

[patrick1]

Cardinal Dolan is an excellent man and imho a great representative of the Church. I have found him to be a very compelling speaker with a warm sense of humor.  However, he is an American and I really don't think it would be a good message.  Schonborn is by all accounts a brilliant man and a Dominican- so I'd be happy with that. An influential priest friend/mentor of mine mentioned his name to me near 20 years ago as someone to keep an eye on.

However, I really think now is the time for a Pope for the developing world to lead the flock.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Cardinal Dolan is an excellent man and imho a great representative of the Church.

?

That's kind of weird to say with your social views...

[patrick1]

Cardinal Dolan is an excellent man and imho a great representative of the Church.

?

That's kind of weird to say with your social views...

I don't feel myself so important to have what I may or may not believe be made universal. too Kantian. Granted, I think there should be more of a conversation and dialog on certain issues but I also don't feel the need to be in lockstep on every issue of faith.

I like Dolan. He is a naturally warm man and a good messenger of Christ's message of peace and love. He may take some unpopular, tough stands on issues but that is what he is supposed to do.
I know that every St. Patrick's day and Christmas mass, I look forward to Dolan's speeches and I'm proud that he is my Cardinal.

[Lief 🗽]

Sort of off topic, but is there a world map of archdioceses somewhere? I can't seem to find one.

[Mr. Morden]

OK, the previous Paddy Power odds I gave came right after the Benedict announcement.  Things have shifted around a bit since then.  The top 7 are now:

Peter Turkson (Ghana), age 64: 3/1 odds
Marc Ouellet (Canada), age 68: 7/2 odds
Francis Arinze (Nigeria), age 80: 9/2 odds
Leonardo Sandri (Argentina), age 69: 6/1 odds
Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga (Honduras), age 70: 7/1 odds
Angelo Scola (Italy), age 71: 8/1 odds
Gianfranco Ravasi (Italy), age 70: 8/1 odds

Arinze is in third place in the betting, even though many of the news stories on this aren't even mentioning him as a possibility.  Not sure why.  He's a lot older than the other options, so I guess he's the choice they'll make if they want a token African pope for just ~5 years or so.  Whereas Turkson is the guy they'll pick if they want an African pope for more like ~25 years.

[Lief 🗽]

Considering that the prophecy mentions that "Peter" will be the last pope, I feel like electing this Turkson fellow is unwise.

[Mr. Morden]

Considering that the prophecy mentions that "Peter" will be the last pope, I feel like electing this Turkson fellow is unwise.

Ah, but he's young!  (At least compared to the other candidates.)  So the Earth could still have a good run of another 25 years or so before the apocalypse.

[King]

Considering that the prophecy mentions that "Peter" will be the last pope, I feel like electing this Turkson fellow is unwise.

He does make the most sense, though.  The Church is looking to win Africa over Islam and an African pope would help.

[Simfan34]

Considering that the prophecy mentions that "Peter" will be the last pope, I feel like electing this Turkson fellow is unwise.

I like this.

[King]

Considering that the prophecy mentions that "Peter" will be the last pope, I feel like electing this Turkson fellow is unwise.

I like this.

The prophesy was clearly broken with Ratzinger's election, though.  The 267th Pope was supposed to be the glory of the olive and all accounts are that he beat Carlo Maria Martini on the final ballot.  I mean, they force some half-assed excuse as to why Benedict XVI fits into the whole olive thing, but the real choice for glory of the olive lost.

[MasterJedi]

I would love for it to be Dolan, I'll echo what patrick1 has been saying, he is a good man and was excellent when he was here in Milwaukee.

[justfollowingtheelections]

He probably realized religion is a hoax.  Good for him.  Now that the pope retired, it's time for organized religion to follow suit

[Spamage]

I wonder what name the next pope will chose? For some reason I cant stop thinking John Paul III

[Blue3]

Peter

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Considering that the prophecy mentions that "Peter" will be the last pope, I feel like electing this Turkson fellow is unwise.

I like this.

The prophesy was clearly broken with Ratzinger's election, though.  The 267th Pope was supposed to be the glory of the olive and all accounts are that he beat Carlo Maria Martini on the final ballot.  I mean, they force some half-assed excuse as to why Benedict XVI fits into the whole olive thing, but the real choice for glory of the olive lost.

It's something like that there's an olive branch on his coat of arms, right?

Actually not even that, it's that he took the name after a saint that founded an order that has an olive branch on their coat of arms, quite a stretch.

[patrick1]

Oh vey, you all know that the Malachy prophecy is a cheap forgery, right....? even if the vague Nostradamus like phrases sometimes link up?

[DC Al Fine]

He probably realized religion is a hoax.  Good for him.  Now that the pope retired, it's time for organized religion to follow suit

-.-

[King]

Oh vey, you all know that the Malachy prophecy is a cheap forgery, right....? even if the vague Nostradamus like phrases sometimes link up?

Yeah, but what else is there to talk about at this point?

[Keystone Phil]

Phil, I agree with you, more or less, but if I can play the advocatus diaboli, answer us this: Are matters such as abortion not, for the Vatican, at heart theological issues?

The fundamental right to life is trickier, I agree, but it isn't at its core theological. Important? Yes. Extremely. But I simply don't think that jeopardizes one's relationship with Christ. Same answer for BRTD's question about female priests. That isn't grounds for me to leave the Church. That's clearly more of a theological issue than abortion but not a fundamental breaking in what the Church is built on and supposed to be. If you're more concerned with who is allowed to say mass than what is actually being said then you probably should be leaving for other reasons.

[TJ in Oregon]

Phil, I agree with you, more or less, but if I can play the advocatus diaboli, answer us this: Are matters such as abortion not, for the Vatican, at heart theological issues?

The fundamental right to life is trickier, I agree, but it isn't at its core theological. Important? Yes. Extremely. But I simply don't think that jeopardizes one's relationship with Christ. Same answer for BRTD's question about women becoming priests. Would I support it? No but that isn't grounds for me to leave the Church. That's clearly more of a theological issue than abortion but not a fundamental breaking in what the Church is built on and supposed to be.

Abortion isn't completely a theological issue (although it is in part) when a common position is that abortion is wrong but should remain legal (think Biden in the debate). At that point it becomes some muddled mess of scandal and/or allowing sin to take place rather than whether or not something is wrong.

Female ordination is clearly theological.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Phil, I agree with you, more or less, but if I can play the advocatus diaboli, answer us this: Are matters such as abortion not, for the Vatican, at heart theological issues?

The fundamental right to life is trickier, I agree, but it isn't at its core theological. Important? Yes. Extremely. But I simply don't think that jeopardizes one's relationship with Christ. Same answer for BRTD's question about female priests. That isn't grounds for me to leave the Church. That's clearly more of a theological issue than abortion but not a fundamental breaking in what the Church is built on and supposed to be. If you're more concerned with who is allowed to say mass than what is actually being said then you probably should be leaving for other reasons.

But for the girl in question it is a big deal, since it means she couldn't do what she wanted to (as I said before, not Catholic, but the same thing applied in her case with what she was raised in unless she converted.)

Actually upon re-reading Phil's statement it seems he's referring more to if he'd leave the church if women could be ordained. I'm talking about someone leaving the church because currently women are NOT ordained.

[Keystone Phil]

Sure, it's theological. I said that. I just don't believe it is a fundamental tenant and people shouldn't leave (either because it isn't allowed or is eventually allowed) because of it.

BRTD, read my edit. I originally thought you meant what would I do if it was allowed. I re-read it and edited my remark. If your female friend is more concerned with the important of who is saying mass than what is being said in mass then she should probably leave for other reasons. But let's call this what it is: you wanting to get into a discussion about one of your silly anecdotes that I really don't care about.