what do you guys think of my hypothetical state of "Pacifica"

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

I tried splitting California into 3 parts - North, Central, and South - and the results are roughly the same for each state.  The South is a little more GOP and the North a little more Dem, but all 3 still go Dem.

[Sbane]

Why would you split a metro area? I can understand a Bay Area state, but why split Los Angeles from Orange. They are politically different but they are in the same metro and it is good to have some cooperation between the area. You can make the same argument with the populated areas of San Bernardino and Riverside counties. Lot of interaction between these areas and Orange/Los Angeles. San Diego could be it's own state and perhaps Palm Springs and the rest of the desert could be it's own state.

The LA basin has such a large population that a split isn't unreasonable. If it must split then separating the Inland Empire from coastal LA seems most natural.

I wouldn't split the LA basin though. So sure, San Bernardino County and Riverside separate from OC/LA could be ok. Would be preferable to keep them all together though. Putting SD and OC together is something I completely disagree with though.

[jimrtex]

Why would you split a metro area? I can understand a Bay Area state, but why split Los Angeles from Orange. They are politically different but they are in the same metro and it is good to have some cooperation between the area. You can make the same argument with the populated areas of San Bernardino and Riverside counties. Lot of interaction between these areas and Orange/Los Angeles. San Diego could be it's own state and perhaps Palm Springs and the rest of the desert could be it's own state.

That is why there would be plebiscites.   I could see Palmdale and Lancaster joining the southern desert district, perhaps Santa Clarita as well.    Would Pomona want to be with Ontario or Ontario with Pomona?  Let the voters decide.

Perhaps the SE Los Angeles County suburbs, even Long Beach, LA Harbor, and Palos Verdes would want to join the south coast district.

Let each assembly district vote for 10 delegates to the constitutional conventions, along with the distribution of the delegates.  So an area might send 6 delegates to one convention, 3 to another, and 1 to another.  After the conventions, there would be more of a sense where an area belongs.  Hold additional plebiscites to define the boundaries of the proposed states, and then have referendums on separation.

[muon2]

Why would you split a metro area? I can understand a Bay Area state, but why split Los Angeles from Orange. They are politically different but they are in the same metro and it is good to have some cooperation between the area. You can make the same argument with the populated areas of San Bernardino and Riverside counties. Lot of interaction between these areas and Orange/Los Angeles. San Diego could be it's own state and perhaps Palm Springs and the rest of the desert could be it's own state.

The LA basin has such a large population that a split isn't unreasonable. If it must split then separating the Inland Empire from coastal LA seems most natural.

I wouldn't split the LA basin though. So sure, San Bernardino County and Riverside separate from OC/LA could be ok. Would be preferable to keep them all together though. Putting SD and OC together is something I completely disagree with though.

That make sense, so if it had to be whole counties and there were two for SoCal you could have Santa Barbara, Ventura, LA and OC in one (14.1 M people), and San Bernardino, Riverside, Imperial and San Diego in the other (7.5 M people). That keeps both under 5% of the nations population as I suggested in the 50 equal states thread.

I think the near equality obscures some better groupings. I would take a range from 1% of the national population up to 5% for each of the 50 states.

[muon2]

Here's my take on the "Pacifica" concept, but modified to fit the 50 states of more equal population. I've included it as part of a region called Ecotopia with three states as follows:

Salish - 4.7 M (includes AK panhandle)
Willamette - 3.8 M
Sonoma - 9.7 M (includes HI)

[muon2]

As a follow up to my Pacifica, I'm not sure what to do with Sacto from the OP. The Sacto valley could become a fourth state in Ecotopia. In the 1981 Garreau source everything on the I-5 and CA-99 down to Sacto was put in the same "nation" as the Pac coast down to Pt Conception.

Alternatively the Sacto valley could be part of a Central Valley state as Antonio has drawn. That puts it in the same "nation" with the others in SoCAL (MexAmerica).

A third, and I would think unlikely choice, is to group it with NV, but that seems to only makes sense for the few trans-Sierra CA counties on Antonio's map.

As always I seek the wise counsel of the CA posters.

[freepcrusher]

You think people in the Bay Area would be thrilled to be with OC Republicans after the state is split?

One thing I wonder is who the Rs in Torie's neck of the woods (Saddleback region) would rather be lumped in with
- the proles on the other side of the mountains
- or (to them) disgustingly left wing bay area types

[Sbane]

They would prefer the bay area types I would think, but the bay area wouldn't want them.

[Sbane]

As a follow up to my Pacifica, I'm not sure what to do with Sacto from the OP. The Sacto valley could become a fourth state in Ecotopia. In the 1981 Garreau source everything on the I-5 and CA-99 down to Sacto was put in the same "nation" as the Pac coast down to Pt Conception.

Alternatively the Sacto valley could be part of a Central Valley state as Antonio has drawn. That puts it in the same "nation" with the others in SoCAL (MexAmerica).

A third, and I would think unlikely choice, is to group it with NV, but that seems to only makes sense for the few trans-Sierra CA counties on Antonio's map.

As always I seek the wise counsel of the CA posters.

I would make the entire central valley it's own state (would have 3-4 million population if not more) or put it with the bay area state.

[muon2]

As a follow up to my Pacifica, I'm not sure what to do with Sacto from the OP. The Sacto valley could become a fourth state in Ecotopia. In the 1981 Garreau source everything on the I-5 and CA-99 down to Sacto was put in the same "nation" as the Pac coast down to Pt Conception.

Alternatively the Sacto valley could be part of a Central Valley state as Antonio has drawn. That puts it in the same "nation" with the others in SoCAL (MexAmerica).

A third, and I would think unlikely choice, is to group it with NV, but that seems to only makes sense for the few trans-Sierra CA counties on Antonio's map.

As always I seek the wise counsel of the CA posters.

I would make the entire central valley it's own state (would have 3-4 million population if not more) or put it with the bay area state.

The Sacto Valley from Redding south to the capital has just under 3M. The San Joaquin Valley from Bakersfield to Stockton has just over 4M. I can easily make it two states or one. If it's two states then I would be asserting that culturally the northern part is more like the coast. If it's one state then there's a bit of an assertion that the Hispanic influence which is big in the southern valley is becoming a significant presence north of Sacto. However, the 2010 Census figures would dispute that and suggest that there are two states. That's why I left it as an open question.

[Sbane]

As a follow up to my Pacifica, I'm not sure what to do with Sacto from the OP. The Sacto valley could become a fourth state in Ecotopia. In the 1981 Garreau source everything on the I-5 and CA-99 down to Sacto was put in the same "nation" as the Pac coast down to Pt Conception.

Alternatively the Sacto valley could be part of a Central Valley state as Antonio has drawn. That puts it in the same "nation" with the others in SoCAL (MexAmerica).

A third, and I would think unlikely choice, is to group it with NV, but that seems to only makes sense for the few trans-Sierra CA counties on Antonio's map.

As always I seek the wise counsel of the CA posters.

I would make the entire central valley it's own state (would have 3-4 million population if not more) or put it with the bay area state.

The Sacto Valley from Redding south to the capital has just under 3M. The San Joaquin Valley from Bakersfield to Stockton has just over 4M. I can easily make it two states or one. If it's two states then I would be asserting that culturally the northern part is more like the coast. If it's one state then there's a bit of an assertion that the Hispanic influence which is big in the southern valley is becoming a significant presence north of Sacto. However, the 2010 Census figures would dispute that and suggest that there are two states. That's why I left it as an open question.

I think the cultural and economic ties are more important. They have different views on a whole host of issues than the coast. One of them is water. They want water for their fields (subsidized for dirt cheap, because obviously it's not socialism when we help farmers), whereas environmentalists want healthy rivers and fish, and fisherman would agree with that as well.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Hispanic thing. They are after all associated with agriculture, as opposed to urban Hispanics in SoCal. While Obama was winning CA-21 by about 9 points, Valadao won by 15. And he is a white guy of Portuguese descent. He did so because he appeals to local issues where the locals disagree with national Democrats. If you drive down I-5 in CA-21, you will see signs warning that the government created the dust bowl, and to tell Pelosi and Boxer to go F themselves, more or less. Very interesting that they didn't implicate Obama, and I think that was good politics.