Is monogamy becoming an underrated value in our society?

[opebo]

Really?  I also go to the restaurant rather than cook my own food.  Does that rile you?

I kind of assume that food and sex present different types of social engagement and for that matter different types of pleasure, but that's secondhand. I'd say it depends on the kind of restaurant.

No, not so different.  Though I suppose a haircut might be a better comparison.  I do on occasion attempt a slight trimming at the back on my own, but even for this I must confess usually resorting to professional assistance.

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What now?  Rather presumptuous of you to think you know me so well, n'est-ce pas?  For all I know you may get tremendous fulfillment from lying on your divan thinking about duty and honor whilst wearing a feminine costume, but I don't presume to judge.

I do, actually, except for the divan which I don't have, and I said 'seems to' so as to hedge, you see. Don't worry, I know you get at least some fulfillment from your quixotic expatriate sybaritism.[/quote]

Far from it - I can report an overwhelming all-day feeling of bliss and contentment, marred only by one thing: the humiliation of paid employment.  I'm such a happy fellow that people sometimes think me insensible - I've been told I drive down the road on my motorbike with a big grin on my face.

I promise that if and when I'm capable of taking one of these conversations seriously I will. I'm not doing this for your edification so much as the entertainment of our fellow Forumites, you see.

Well duh, why do you think I'm bothering with you either?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Though it is a bit one-sided.

Yes, it clearly is... though not in the way you intended.

[opebo]

Though it is a bit one-sided.

Yes, it clearly is... though not in the way you intended.

Tony, what is it that gets you going about Nathan's point of view?

[Kitteh]

Also, I really haven't ever heard a good argument for making hedonism your guiding moral principle, or one that doesn't make you sound like a sociopath. Other than utilitarianism, which requires a much more altruistic type of hedonism than opebo is practicing.

Dude, my argument is for sociopathology, not for hedonism.  And after all that is how society is actually run.

Good to know you're a sociopath then.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Though it is a bit one-sided.

Yes, it clearly is... though not in the way you intended.

Tony, what is it that gets you going about Nathan's point of view?

Regardless of Nathan's point of view (which is obviously much closer to mine than mine is to yours), he's being as articulate as one possibly can on these kinds of topics, while you are just... being yourself.

[opebo]

Good to know you're a sociopath then.

It is just my dream.  But, I think it is clear enough that we all would be sociopaths if we had the power, and that those with the power are sociopaths.

Tony, what is it that gets you going about Nathan's point of view?

Regardless of Nathan's point of view (which is obviously much closer to mine than mine is to yours), he's being as articulate as one possibly can on these kinds of topics, while you are just... being yourself.

'Articulate'?  He just said he likes monogamy, doesn't like sex, and name-dropped Hume.  It wasn't terrible or anything, but I wasn't really amused all that much.

[Kitteh]

Tony, what is it that gets you going about Nathan's point of view?

Regardless of Nathan's point of view (which is obviously much closer to mine than mine is to yours), he's being as articulate as one possibly can on these kinds of topics, while you are just... being yourself.

'Articulate'?  He just said he likes monogamy, doesn't like sex, and name-dropped Hume.  It wasn't terrible or anything, but I wasn't really amused all that much.
[/quote]

Almost anything is a better argument than "I like fycking lots of Thai girls".

[opebo]

'Articulate'?  He just said he likes monogamy, doesn't like sex, and name-dropped Hume.  It wasn't terrible or anything, but I wasn't really amused all that much.

Almost anything is a better argument than "I like fycking lots of Thai girls".

Actually no, nothing is a better argument than "I like X" - it is indisputable, n'est-ce_pas?

 

[Kitteh]

'Articulate'?  He just said he likes monogamy, doesn't like sex, and name-dropped Hume.  It wasn't terrible or anything, but I wasn't really amused all that much.

Almost anything is a better argument than "I like fycking lots of Thai girls".

Actually no, nothing is a better argument than "I like X" - it is indisputable, n'est-ce_pas?

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that you like fycking Thai women.

[opebo]

Almost anything is a better argument than "I like fycking lots of Thai girls".

Actually no, nothing is a better argument than "I like X" - it is indisputable, n'est-ce_pas?

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that you like fycking Thai women.

Actually old Nathan was verging on that.. he loves to believe one couldn't 'really' like such things or be 'as satisfied' as he is with his - well with whatever it is.

I think he imagines me to be rather like Ginger Ted!

[fezzyfestoon]

This thread makes me embarrassed for everyone posting in it. Scott should mercy lock it. Also, how old is Nathan?

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

This thread makes me embarrassed for everyone posting in it. Scott should mercy lock it. Also, how old is Nathan?

I take exception to the implication that it matters.

[Torie]

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In a curious way, we have much in common, opebo, including a disdain for convention. We revel in doing our own thing, and take some risks doing so. But on this we are polar opposites. I found paid employment ennobling, not degrading. I still remember the excitement of my first job working in a record store for the summer while in high school. I felt independence, I felt like a man, I felt like I was growing up. I hated the condition of dependency, and wanted out of it as soon as possible. And I don't consider answering to a boss as being "humiliating." In general I have always respected my bosses. If I didn't, I decamped. And then about your age, I become "The Man," with just the right two partners, who filled in where I was inadequate, as I filled in where they were (I was the "creative" one, and the quantitative one - so far as that goes in the legal world). We did well. And so it goes.

Sorry to go off topic. I tend to do that. Sorry. But I felt the need to say it. There are a lot of youngs around here, and they deserve more perspectives than just yours on this one. It's important - at least to me.

[fezzyfestoon]

This thread makes me embarrassed for everyone posting in it. Scott should mercy lock it. Also, how old is Nathan?

I take exception to the implication that it matters.

Why? We've had several teenagers coming around talking about how they've sworn off sex, or they hate it, or it's disgusting without ever having had even a remotely sexual experience. I'm sure there are a couple experienced adults here and there who have legitimate aversions to it for whatever reasons, but around here it tends to be far more related to immaturity, fear, or the all-too-prevalent social dysfunction. So forgive me for wanting to clear that up, but it has everything to do with age.

[Velasco]

Tony, what is it that gets you going about Nathan's point of view?

Regardless of Nathan's point of view (which is obviously much closer to mine than mine is to yours), he's being as articulate as one possibly can on these kinds of topics, while you are just... being yourself.

'Articulate'?  He just said he likes monogamy, doesn't like sex, and name-dropped Hume.  It wasn't terrible or anything, but I wasn't really amused all that much.

Almost anything is a better argument than "I like fycking lots of Thai girls".
[/quote]

I think he argued why he prefers monogamy. His point of view may be very particular or influenced by his circumstances -I suspect that yours also is- but is reasoned: Nathan always reasons his points of view. Also, it's a sample of bad taste discrediting an argumentation being based on personal circumstances: argumentatio ad hominem. On the other hand, some visions of sexuality -and in a more wide sense morality, which is not a synonymous of prudishness as any of you seem to believe- that I have read in this thread seem to me simply ridiculous and shortsighted.

For general information, I state that I have kissed some girls and even I have slept with someone. I'm not in the habit of judging people for this type of circumstances and I find ridiculous people who does it, honestly.

[Torie]

Nice post Velasco. Nice to meet you.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

This thread makes me embarrassed for everyone posting in it. Scott should mercy lock it. Also, how old is Nathan?

I take exception to the implication that it matters.

Why? We've had several teenagers coming around talking about how they've sworn off sex, or they hate it, or it's disgusting without ever having had even a remotely sexual experience. I'm sure there are a couple experienced adults here and there who have legitimate aversions to it for whatever reasons, but around here it tends to be far more related to immaturity, fear, or the all-too-prevalent social dysfunction. So forgive me for wanting to clear that up, but it has everything to do with age.

I'm not a fearful kid and I'm not an experienced adult. I'm a senior in college and have had ample time to decide whether or not I want to participate in certain aspects of the culture around me. My disapproval of promiscuity and the commodification of sex are certainly in some sense related to my personal distaste for the subject matter, but I assure you that I have considerably more stringent standards for my own decorum than those that I'm foisting, or attempting to foist, on opebo.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

BTW - I think this should be nominated for worst threat in the history of Atlas...

Oh and most people who claim to be asexual, are actually just scared of sex... not targeting anyone in particular. But this is my experience.

[Napoleon]

This thread makes me embarrassed for everyone posting in it. Scott should mercy lock it. Also, how old is Nathan?

I take exception to the implication that it matters.

Why? We've had several teenagers coming around talking about how they've sworn off sex, or they hate it, or it's disgusting without ever having had even a remotely sexual experience. I'm sure there are a couple experienced adults here and there who have legitimate aversions to it for whatever reasons, but around here it tends to be far more related to immaturity, fear, or the all-too-prevalent social dysfunction. So forgive me for wanting to clear that up, but it has everything to do with age.

That's not Nathan. I've not known him to say something he didn't lend much thought to. Being HFA, he may have different interests from you or I but he's certainly mature enough to know what he's saying and, as one of the more introspective posters around here, he's probably thought about it quite a bit. I don't take the stance he does on this but I do understand where he is coming from. I also understand the type of person you are describing but that person would basically be the opposite of Nathan.

[Kitteh]

This thread makes me embarrassed for everyone posting in it. Scott should mercy lock it. Also, how old is Nathan?

I take exception to the implication that it matters.

Why? We've had several teenagers coming around talking about how they've sworn off sex, or they hate it, or it's disgusting without ever having had even a remotely sexual experience. I'm sure there are a couple experienced adults here and there who have legitimate aversions to it for whatever reasons, but around here it tends to be far more related to immaturity, fear, or the all-too-prevalent social dysfunction. So forgive me for wanting to clear that up, but it has everything to do with age.

I wonder how people would respond to a similar argument about gay teenagers. "They're too young to know that they're gay for sure, most of them haven't had sex with anyone of any gender, a lot of it is driven by a natural teenage awkwardness and embarrassment around the other sex leading these kids to think they're gay, they should at least try being in a heterosexual relationship first, etc". My guess is that it wouldn't be taken so well. 

BTW - I think this should be nominated for worst threat in the history of Atlas...

It's not even close. The Sandra Fluke thread was definitely worse than this one, especially before BK sanitized it. I'm sure there were some terrible threads here before I joined, too.

Oh and most people who claim to be asexual, are actually just scared of sex... not targeting anyone in particular. But this is my experience.

To be fair, you did say it was just your experience, so I'm not attacking you or anything, but just saying that's not a really reliable basis.

[fezzyfestoon]

I'm not a fearful kid and I'm not an experienced adult. I'm a senior in college and have had ample time to decide whether or not I want to participate in certain aspects of the culture around me. My disapproval of promiscuity and the commodification of sex are certainly in some sense related to my personal distaste for the subject matter, but I assure you that I have considerably more stringent standards for my own decorum than those that I'm foisting, or attempting to foist, on opebo.

It doesn't bother me if you don't want to have sex, but this whole thing smacks of judgment and ignorance. Sex isn't a cultural phenomenon, it's a basic human instinct. Shaming people for performing a pleasurable act they naturally enjoy is childish. As is making the decision at 21 or so that you know for a fact you have a distaste for sex. If you happen not to have enjoyed it, that's fine and I have no problem with that. When it turns to being framed as a life decision you seem to feel superior for making, I find that wildly offensive. But I don't think that's what it is either, polnut hit it on the head. And the difference is that I'm not trying to make you feel bad for it, it's a totally understandable position to be in. My suggestion is to just not go making grand proclamations when I guarantee you'll feel differently about it when you find a girl you really like or suffer a lapse in judgment and submit to a fling with a crush or whatever.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Sex when you're in love is the best thing. I couldn't imagine anyone not liking it or holding their same asexual views once they experience such a thing.

[Kitteh]

It doesn't bother me if you don't want to have sex with women, but this whole thing smacks of judgment and ignorance. SexHeterosexuality isn't a cultural phenomenon, it's a basic human instinct. As is making the decision at 21 or so that you know for a fact you have a distaste for straight sex. If you happen not to have enjoyed it, that's fine and I have no problem with that. When it turns to being framed as a life decision you seem to feel superior for making, I find that wildly offensive. But I don't think that's what it is either, polnut hit it on the head. And the difference is that I'm not trying to make you feel bad for it, it's a totally understandable position to be in. My suggestion is to just not go making grand proclamations when I guarantee you'll feel differently about it when you find a girl you really like or suffer a lapse in judgment and submit to a fling with a crush or whatever.

Again, let's turn this around. Striking how close it comes to things I'm sure many of the LGBT people on this forum have heard from homophobic relatives at some point.

[fezzyfestoon]

I wonder how people would respond to a similar argument about gay teenagers. "They're too young to know that they're gay for sure, most of them haven't had sex with anyone of any gender, a lot of it is driven by a natural teenage awkwardness and embarrassment around the other sex leading these kids to think they're gay, they should at least try being in a heterosexual relationship first, etc". My guess is that it wouldn't be taken so well. 

Where in my post is there any indication of generalization? It's very specifically and carefully based on an individual basis. Not to mention that your post supports my point that sexuality is natural by bringing up sexual orientation being known early. Thanks for portraying me as a bigot anyway though.

[Kitteh]

Sex when you're in lovewith a woman is the best thing. I couldn't imagine anyone not liking it or holding their same ahomosexual views once they experience such a thing.