SENATE BILL: Empowering Regions in Federal Elections Amendment (FAILED)

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Empowering Regions in Federal Elections Amendment (General, Constitutional amendment)

1. A region's governing body shall have the authority to determine procedure for administration of voting and certification of election results for their own Class A Senate elections in the months of February, June, and October. A region's governing body shall also have the authority to administer voting and certification of election results for Presidential elections consistent with federal election law in the months of February, June, and October.
 
2. A region's governing body may determine the means of election to Class A Senate election. Elections must be democratic.

3. To ensure a fair process of election, any alternative system of voting chosen by the region's governing body for Class A Senate elections must be conducted in public, on-site, and may not disqualify any candidate meeting the qualifications set in the Constitution.

4. If a region fails to open a polling thread for their Senator and President by the time polls must open, a Federal Officer of the Executive Branch shall open the vote on behalf of the region. Regions may defer the authority to administer the election to the Secretary of Federal Elections at any time.

Sponsor: Napoleon

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The sponsor has 24 hours to start advocating for this bill of course.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I'll lobby in favor of this in Napoleon's stead.

This is a modified proposal that Duke and I have been fighting over for a couple years; which was in itself a modified proposal that Xahar, Franzl, and I were fighting for back in 2009. As regions take an increasingly prominent role in the game, regions should have more say in their own representation.

It is bizarre to me, personally, that while we elect half of the Senate specifically within the boundaries of certain regions, ostensibly to represent those regions' interests, these regions have no power over the means of election or administration of the election; while they're free to do as they wish with their own regional offices. Why not extend the same power of administration to their own Senate representatives as well?

Much has been said over the years over the importance, legitimacy, and just plain interesting-ness of regional Senate seats. And while I fall on the side of defending the existence of regional Senators, the fact remains that if they are truly to be regional Senators, regions should be free to extend their own influence and flair to those individual Senate elections, not only for the principle of the thing, but also for the purposes of making the game more varied and interesting. It makes these boundaries, and the representation of the regions themselves, actually mean something.

While I've objected to the idea of breaking the Presidential election down to the regional boundaries as well; why not? The election would remain, otherwise, the same, and it makes sense to conduct the newly decentralized regional Senate elections on the regional level, in a separate voting booth, accounting for potential means-of-election differences, while maintaining a certain efficiency. I support this Amendment wholeheartedly; and I feel the regions themselves would as well. It accomplishes two things at the same time; it makes our system just plain make more sense, and more consistent with an Atlasia that has seen regions take an ever more prominent role in the game, all the while making the game more varied than it has heretofore been.

Vote for this!

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I could support giving the regions more authority over how they choose their representatives in the senate, but I think I'll hold back on giving them free reign over the election process for president.

The president operates on behalf of all Atlasians, not all regions. I think the election process needs to stay federal here. Just my two cents.

[Napoleon]

Napoleon, why have you changed your mind on this? I remember you criticizing an earlier version of this proposal.

This was my counter proposal. Indeed, I have always supported this.

[Napoleon]

I could support giving the regions more authority over how they choose their representatives in the senate, but I think I'll hold back on giving them free reign over the election process for president.

The president operates on behalf of all Atlasians, not all regions. I think the election process needs to stay federal here. Just my two cents.

Regions don't get free reign on how to elect the President in this proposal and I would not support making that change.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

"Free reign" was too strong of a term, sorry. I just don't see why they should have to administer presidential elections. It would make it easier for counting errors to occur and it and more difficult for candidates to keep track of votes. The office of president really doesn't have anything to do with the regions as separate entities anyway, so I guess I have a hard time seeing how this measure would improve the status quo. It just confuses things. Why have one race split over five threads?

On the flip side, the status quo for regional senate elections is confusing because we have five races in one thread. Let's leave the presidential election the way it is (it makes sense) and make the changes where the changes actually need to be made.

[Napoleon]

1) Turn out in regional elections is dramatically lower

2) Two separate ballots is confusing

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I don't really see what you're trying to refute with your first point.

As for section two, I disagree. I think it's more confusing to have one universal election and five separate elections going on in the same thread. I'd be curious to hear what everyone else thinks.

[Napoleon]

Hagrid, you're discussing the horrible original proposal of this that failed over and over again for good reason. Having the presidential election on the ballot will draw more attention to regional elections than they would otherwise get, which is a good thing.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Not every region has elections that line up with the presidential one.

What was so horrible about the original proposal?

[MaxQue]

I know I'm not a senator, but I'm half of a regional executive, which are obviously the subject of the law.

There is an hole in the law. If that amendment passes and a region doesn't act on it, it's falling in an hole. Perhaps something saying than, as long a region doesn't decide to run federal elections, they will be run by the SoFE, in case a region just doesn't decide anything (not deciding to run them, nor returning the power to the SoFE). It's better than the emergency mechanism of the 4th article (which is still useful, but more in the case of the failure of an regional officer than the failure of a region to act on its new powers).

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This needs more debate in my opinion.

Could the Regional Executive clarify what he means by a hole. Doesn't the SoFE stepping in fix that in that case?

[MaxQue]

This needs more debate in my opinion.

Could the Regional Executive clarify what he means by a hole. Doesn't the SoFE stepping in fix that in that case?

Well, the region might decide to defer the authority of the SoFE, but I'm talking of the case of a failure of the region to decide whether they will run it themselves or defering it to the SoFE.

[Napoleon]

This needs more debate in my opinion.

Could the Regional Executive clarify what he means by a hole. Doesn't the SoFE stepping in fix that in that case?

Well, the region might decide to defer the authority of the SoFE, but I'm talking of the case of a failure of the region to decide whether they will run it themselves or defering it to the SoFE.

Basically, the first part of clause four is the emergency clause. If there is no voting booth for that region at midnight, the SoFE will open one like he otherwise would at that time. The regions should already have their voting booths prepared to open at midnight and he can step in if they do not.

If a Region like the Mideast that doesn't have any regional elections in February or June or October, only President and Senate would be on the ballot so they could permanently defer that authority to the SoFE if they want to, and never have to worry about it.

[MaxQue]

Then, we can get quite ridiculous case where two voting booths for the same regional senate seat are opened in the same night, one by regional executive, one by SoFE, and all the legal fights about people which voted in one but not the other one, which one is the valid one...

[Napoleon]

Then, we can get quite ridiculous case where two voting booths for the same regional senate seat are opened in the same night, one by regional executive, one by SoFE, and all the legal fights about people which voted in one but not the other one, which one is the valid one...

The SoFE would only open one id there was none there.

[Marokai Backbeat]

If by "failing over and over again" Napoleon means "twice" then yes.

Not every region has elections that line up with the presidential one.

What was so horrible about the original proposal?

It wasn't horrible, but in retrospect it was rather inefficient. Splitting up the voting booths has the potential to lead to lower turnout in regional Senate elections as individuals have to seek out a voting booth separate from the Presidential election. Regional elections typically have lower turnout, but that wasn't something we wanted to replicate for the senate races too. Under this proposal, the Presidential, regional Senate race, and perhaps the regional government races that also fall in conjunction to the federal elections, can all be held in the same place, effectively regionalizing the races, while maintaining turnout, and also possibly increasing turnout for the regional government races at the same time.

[Napoleon]

Why not get around the problem by synchronizing at-large Senate elections with Presidential elections? That would seem to make more sense, unless the current system was developed for some reason that I'm overlooking.

I don't like the idea of orphaning regional senate elections in a separate voting booth where turnout may be lower, particularly when they do not coincide with other regional elections. But I don't like the idea of regionalizing presidential elections; it could make PRSTV counting unnecessarily complicated for the federal elections administrator.

That was discussed before, but I don't think it would work as well. If anything this makes counting easier because you wont have five different elections mixed together. I think you're unnecessarily complicating a proposal while you're trying to prevent unnecessary complications.

[Napoleon]

If you're tracking results in a spreadsheet, it wouldn't matter what thread they are in.

I didn't propose this to simplify the process. But I am able to see that, at least from my point of view, organizing the regional seats is a fair trade off for separating the presidential election. I think any difference would be negligible.

I understand your thought process, I think Yankee suggested it last time but I believe it simply complicates things more than needed. Besides, I am partial to tradition around here and I think that having a truly federal election every two months instead of four is beneficial to our youthful, ADD population. Sadly, many regional Senate elections are uncompetitive. In the context of the game I prefer to maximize entertainment value.

[Napoleon]

I will be honest here. I did not pay much attention to what was going on in December. I know August was one of the best we've had, but so was the August the year before.

I can't say that I would call any of the regional Senate elections last cycle competitive except the Mideast. Maybe the Pacific but the outcome was known from the start.

It makes sense why this is the case. People in this game are friends and often don't want to run "against" someone. The at large elections are pooled so people are more likely to run than otherwise. It didn't really matter how many Liberals turned out in the Northeast regional senate because we didn't have a candidate but in the at large every vote counts. Its just more competitivein that sense.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Is this over then or are there desired changes lingering out there?

[Napoleon]

We can vote whenever.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Last call for any last minute changes.


As per usual we will get silence then a failing vote.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

The debate is over. Senators, please vote aye, nay, or abstain.