Woodrow Wilson: HP or FF?

[DevotedDemocrat]

What say you?
Also, why was Wilson looked upon for such a long time as being an amazing, transformative, great President? I mean old school Democrats like JFK used his name with pride, when comparing the Democrats' legacy to the Republicans' in the '60s.

[Maxwell]

HP.

[Dr. Cynic]

Apart from his racism, he was a raving idealist who did not know how to cope if his ideas were not 100% agreed upon. He couldn't compromise at all. His League was a failure. I can't call him an HP for that. I can however call him an HP for his racism and for his inability to compromise.

[nolesfan2011]

serious HP, he was racist, he disregarded congress and overreached executive power, he promoted propaganda, he was anti civil liberties and threw critics in jail, he lied about WW1, he got us involved with the Fed banking cabal.

One of the worst Presidents ever

[TDAS04]

serious HP, he was racist, he disregarded congress and overreached executive power, he promoted propaganda, he was anti civil liberties and threw critics in jail, he lied about WW1, he got us involved with the Fed banking cabal.

One of the worst Presidents ever

This

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

serious HP, he was racist, he disregarded congress and overreached executive power, he promoted propaganda, he was anti civil liberties and threw critics in jail, he lied about WW1, he got us involved with the Fed banking cabal.

One of the worst Presidents ever

This

[Oakvale]

FF with some HP elements. FF all the more for the absurd internet outrage about him. One of the best Democratic Presidents, but then again that's not exactly a high bar to clear.

[Goldwater]

I'm not sure I would call him an FF, but he wasn't as bad as people here seem to think.

[DC Al Fine]

I'm not sure I would call him an FF, but he wasn't as bad as people here seem to think.

He threw his critics in jail. If Obama did that we right wingers would justifiably be going ape-sh[inks]. That alone ought to make him an HP.

[TNF]

An FF until World War I. Neutral at that point.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

HP for being a racist, for segregating the military, and not supporting women's suffrage until he was pressured to. 
That being said, I agree with Goldwater that he wasn't as bad as libertarians think.  His foreign policy is probably similar to what mine would be if I were president.

[Peter the Lefty]

serious HP, he was racist, he disregarded congress and overreached executive power, he promoted propaganda, he was anti civil liberties and threw critics in jail, he lied about WW1, he got us involved with the Fed banking cabal.

One of the worst Presidents ever

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[morgieb]

Hard to say. Did a lot of awful stuff though, so lean HP.

[Torie]

Racist, segregated the government as the culmination of Jim Crow, and bungled the League of Nations thing. He did not know how to triangulate. His jewel on the crown was setting up the modern Federal Reserve system.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Good President on balance; bad man personally. Voted FF.

He has his (serious) flaws, but calling him "omg one of the worst" is hilariously hyperbolic.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

A dictator pure and simple. He could make Chavez look like Gary Johnson in terms of power lust.

[politicallefty]

HP, as the flaws easily outweigh the good.

[Knives]

Good President on balance; bad man personally. Voted FF.

He has his (serious) flaws, but calling him "omg one of the worst" is hilariously hyperbolic.

This.

[MATTROSE94]

I would say lean HP due to his racial policies and somewhat excessive actions against civil liberties during World War 1, although he is defiantely was not as bad as he is portrayed to be by people such as Glenn Beck. That being said, I would rather have Woodrow Wilson as President than either Rick Santorum, Michele Bachmann, Sam Brownback, Scott Walker, Ted Cruz or Paul Ryan anyday.

[Napoleon]

Good President on balance; bad man personally. Voted FF.

He has his (serious) flaws, but calling him "omg one of the worst" is hilariously hyperbolic.

No, its not hyperbolic at all. Wilson sucked in every phase of the game.

[Sopranos Republican]

serious HP, he was racist, he disregarded congress and overreached executive power, he promoted propaganda, he was anti civil liberties and threw critics in jail, he lied about WW1, he got us involved with the Fed banking cabal.

One of the worst Presidents ever

This

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

HP for being a racist, for segregating the military, and not supporting women's suffrage until he was pressured to. 
That being said, I agree with Goldwater that he wasn't as bad as libertarians think.  His foreign policy is probably similar to what mine would be if I were president.

He didn't segregate the military that I know of, it had been segregated since blacks were first allowed in the service in 1863. In the Spanish American War, they fought in black regiments just as they had in the Civil War (even helped bail TR out in certain rough spots, since they had experience out in Arizona and the West, whereas the Rough Riders regiment was mostly ranchers and WASPs elites with little such experience). He segregated the civil service and essentially brought Jim Crow into the capital of a country that claimed to be built on a promise of freedom for all.  Of course, he wasn't the first Virginian (by birth) President to be a hypocrit on the issue of freedom.

[The Constable]

Let us not forget that Wilson's first term was filled with good things:
-Fed Act
-FTC Act
-Clayton Antitrust Act
-Farm Loan Act
-the income tax

He was a deeply flawed man, but he did a great deal of good.

[Mechaman]

The evils of his second term far outweigh any accomplishments (of course this is subjective on whether or not you believe said accomplishments were good) he achieved in his first term.  Getting the US involved in wars it had no business being involved in (cue the OMG BUT THE GERMANS WERE MILITARISTIC NATIONALISTIC WAR MACHINES WHO WANTED TO INVADE EVERYTHING ON THE PLANET AND MUST'VE BEEN STOPPED FOR THE SAKE OF DEMOCRACY! poster), suspended civil liberties at home, made his own voter base targets (German Americans) for government endorsed discrimination, segregated the Federal Government (well, that was happening in the first term as well), appointed Alexander Mitchell Palmer as Attorney General (arguably his worst crime), his unwillingness to negotiage on the League of Versailles with Congress (it really needed reservations), giving Free Republic supporters the finger after giving his word he would bring up Irish Independence at Versailles, jailing Eugene V Debs, arresting people who protested World War I etc. etc. etc.

And this is just the stuff I thought of off the top of my head.

Woodrow Wilson was rightfully regarded, at the end of his day, as his generation's equivalent of George W Bush.  Given his impressive HP resume, I would agree with the summation.  For those of you who are like BUT BUT INCOME TAXES!  BUT BUT FEDERAL RESERVE!  BUT BUT PROGRESSIVISM! I will say that anybody and their grandmother who would've been president from 1913-1921 was just as likely to sign those into law.  Let's not act like it was pure Wilsonian ingenuity that got those into law or that without Woodrow Wilson those laws would've never happened.  Hell, Wilson RAN as the pro-business candidate ("If America is not to have free enterprise, he is not to have freedom of any sort.") and ended up going the opposite way of what his campaign rhetoric indicated (except on tariffs, which he did reduce).

However, while the accomplishments of his first term could've been passed (Income Tax was a holdover from Taft, who was also a lot more zealous on trust busting than he is given credit for) by most electable nominees, there is a very serious argument to be made that none of them would've done what Wilson did in his second term (well, maybe Roosevelt, minus the whole segregation of the federal government bit).  Really though, I think this speaks best about Wilson's tenure:

[nolesfan2011]

The evils of his second term far outweigh any accomplishments (of course this is subjective on whether or not you believe said accomplishments were good) he achieved in his first term.  Getting the US involved in wars it had no business being involved in (cue the OMG BUT THE GERMANS WERE MILITARISTIC NATIONALISTIC WAR MACHINES WHO WANTED TO INVADE EVERYTHING ON THE PLANET AND MUST'VE BEEN STOPPED FOR THE SAKE OF DEMOCRACY! poster), suspended civil liberties at home, made his own voter base targets (German Americans) for government endorsed discrimination, segregated the Federal Government (well, that was happening in the first term as well), appointed Alexander Mitchell Palmer as Attorney General (arguably his worst crime), his unwillingness to negotiage on the League of Versailles with Congress (it really needed reservations), giving Free Republic supporters the finger after giving his word he would bring up Irish Independence at Versailles, jailing Eugene V Debs, arresting people who protested World War I etc. etc. etc.

And this is just the stuff I thought of off the top of my head.

Woodrow Wilson was rightfully regarded, at the end of his day, as his generation's equivalent of George W Bush.  Given his impressive HP resume, I would agree with the summation.  For those of you who are like BUT BUT INCOME TAXES!  BUT BUT FEDERAL RESERVE!  BUT BUT PROGRESSIVISM! I will say that anybody and their grandmother who would've been president from 1913-1921 was just as likely to sign those into law.  Let's not act like it was pure Wilsonian ingenuity that got those into law or that without Woodrow Wilson those laws would've never happened.  Hell, Wilson RAN as the pro-business candidate ("If America is not to have free enterprise, he is not to have freedom of any sort.") and ended up going the opposite way of what his campaign rhetoric indicated (except on tariffs, which he did reduce).

However, while the accomplishments of his first term could've been passed (Income Tax was a holdover from Taft, who was also a lot more zealous on trust busting than he is given credit for) by most electable nominees, there is a very serious argument to be made that none of them would've done what Wilson did in his second term (well, maybe Roosevelt, minus the whole segregation of the federal government bit).  Really though, I think this speaks best about Wilson's tenure:

excellent post fleshing out the points I made.. Wilson was kind of a faux "progressive"