CPAC forum on race devolves into hot mess after someone defends slavery
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 30, 2024, 07:05:45 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  CPAC forum on race devolves into hot mess after someone defends slavery
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3]
Author Topic: CPAC forum on race devolves into hot mess after someone defends slavery  (Read 8789 times)
pbrower2a
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,839
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #50 on: March 21, 2013, 01:15:13 PM »

Someone answered my question well, but in a different thread.




As is not my usual practice, I am showing a map without a legend. I would like people to think of the significance of the color design.

Hints:

1. White stands for an even split in something, if not everything.

2. This map involves four Presidential elections in which two Presidents were the winners.

3. As is conventional in this Forum, red stands for Democrats and blue for Republicans.

4. In the last two Presidential races in which someone won electoral votes as an independent candidate running on a segregationist platform, Leip uses the color green (which is not a reference to Robert LaFollette winning Wisconsin in 1924).

5. Figure why I have no deep red but plenty of deep blue.

I have an educational purpose for such an eccentric practice. I want to see some responses before I give the key.



OK. The two pairs of elections involved are 1952/1956 and 2008/2012. American politics have changed much in sixty years, but largely because people who fit demographics that used to vote reliably Democratic (except for racist dissidents with the national Democratic Party when it went 'too sympathetic to black people' for their tastes) and some who fit the demographics of Republican voters in the 1950s have switched sides. In the 1950s the Republican Party was not racist. This was long before any Southern Strategy that lured white people who harbored fears of black people wielding political power.

Eisenhower did nothing to show support for segregation. He never promised to re-segregate the Armed Forces. He concurred with the Supreme Court on school desegregation. At that he was as 'objectionable' as Harry Truman to white racists. Stevenson successfully brought the Strom Thurmond voters of 1948 back to the Democratic Party, but that was far from enough to win the Presidency either in 1952 or 1956.

I can now discuss the color scheme. Gray indicates Alaska, Hawaii, and the District of Columbia, none of which voted in the 1952 or 1956 elections. I am not going to speculate on how those states or DC would have voted in 1952 or 1956. Those states and DC account for 10 electoral votes.

Deep blue indicates that the Republican nominee won the state in all four of the relevant elections to this map -- '52, '56, '08, and '12.  Except for Tennessee, which unlike its neighbors voted twice for Eisenhower, those states line up along the US 83 and US 89 corridors. Eastern Tennessee was long an R-friendly area, which may have made a huge difference. Those states, less NE-02, account for 99 electoral votes in 2012.

There's no deep red because no state went for the Democrat in all four elections. Only one state, North Carolina, went Democratic in three of the four elections. In pale blue are Indiana and NE-02, which went Republican in three of the four elections. Those categories account for 27 electoral votes in 2016. 

States in deep green went Democratic in two of the four elections but for Stevenson and not for Obama. Those in pale green split in the elections of the 1950s but went for Republican nominees in 2008 and 2012. They account for 77 electoral votes as of 2016.

The rest in white split evenly between Republicans and Democrats -- but Eisenhower and Obama won all of those states twice! They contain 325 electoral votes as of 2016.   Eisenhower is the only Republican to win Massachusetts and Minnesota together since the 1920s, and he did that twice. Tellingly, Massachusetts was the only state to go for McGovern in 1972 and Minnesota was the only state to go for Mondale in 1984 -- and those states were the best two states for the Democratic nominee in those 49-state landslides. 
Logged
Sbane
sbane
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,309


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #51 on: March 21, 2013, 07:28:34 PM »

The man may be black, but my goodness he should know not to say such things. Even if, as Oldiesfreak said, that what he said was taken out of context, he shouldn't say that. Do these people know how open their mouths, without saying something stupid? This is quite possibly the Republican party's biggest problem at the moment, Republicans saying dumb things.

The guy saying the crazy things wasn't black. The guy leading the discussion on the race card was black. Watch the video.
Logged
Indy Texas
independentTX
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,269
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: -3.48

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #52 on: March 21, 2013, 07:59:24 PM »

To this day there are Democrats running unopposed in rural Texas.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.texastribune.org/2010/10/08/rural-white-democrats-in-republican-sights/


Allan Ritter actually switched to the Republican Party shortly after the 2010 elections (even though he had been reelected as a Democrat).

There is not a single white male Democrat representing a rural district in Texas anymore.

Ritter was one of the last of that breed. The session before, Chuck Hopson, a conservative Dem from East Texas, switched to the GOP also. There were also a couple of Hispanic Democrats in the Corpus Christi area who switched, but that area has been trending Republican over the years and Hispanic Republicans have always had a small foothold there due to local disputes with local Democratic officials.

The only recent case of a Republican switching to the Democratic Party was in 2007, when Kirk England, a moderate [white male] Republican from Dallas, switched, citing disagreements with the House leadership and Rick Perry. (He was reelected as a Dem in '08 but was defeated in 2010).
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderators
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,118
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #53 on: March 22, 2013, 06:15:59 PM »

If anything, the more rural, poorer, and older Dixiecrats were the last group of Southern whites to switch to the GOP-not just at the Presidential level, but the state and local levels too.

To this day there are Democrats running unopposed in rural Texas.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.texastribune.org/2010/10/08/rural-white-democrats-in-republican-sights/

After the Civil War and Reconstruction Republicans were HATED in the South.  Being a Democrat is just a strong tradition down there.  But anyone that denies what happened after the signing of the Civil Rights act is deluding themselves.  That put a lot of southern Democrats in a tough position.  Some stayed Democrats and changed their views and a bunch of others slowly but surely threw in the towel and headed over to the Republicans so they could enjoy the dog whistle politics.

I think a lot of simplistic statements are made and accepted by people who have not spent much time in the South.  Anyone who is honest and spent some time down there knows the deal.

Oh I agree that the Civil Rights Act drove out a lot of racists and bigots in the South (and elsewhere...) from the Democratic Party, into the arms of the Republican Party (who, of course, did what any opportunistic party would do...). I just think that it's been way over simplified into  "the Southern Democrats bolted the party overnight, and today form the core of the GOP." That has some degree of truth, but really obscures the historical record and the nuances of what happened.

It also fails to take into account what was happening in the South prior to the CRA, the demographic changes, the existance of a GOP effort to make inroads at the Federal level as far back as 1928 on the national level and 1900 on the state level in these Southern states.

No doubt the CRA played a role in the in making a lot of people willing to vote for a "OMG The PARTY OF LINCOLN, THE DEVIL", for the first time. However, the transition of the south was certainly not overnight. Some of the very same people who voted for Goldwater, didn't vote Republican again until 1972 and even some not again until 1984. Some didn't become Republican voters regularly until 1990's and 2000's, when other social issues were more dominant. On the flip side, there were southerners voting Republican prior to 1964. FL voted for Ike, LA voted for Ike, and TX even voted for Ike. Nixon didn't win TX in 1968. And in 1956, had not Ike just used the national guard in Little Rock and signed the 1956 Civil Rights Act, not to mention being an evil "Republican" before the CRA dislodged many of those "unreconstructed Democrats"? He was helped by his War record to be sure, but the GOP was already moving into the South, and taking advantage of demographic shifts of mostly Republican northern transplants to aid the process.

As I said in a prior post, the Southern Strategy predated the 1960's and was centered building a coalition that could win a majority nationwide, not embracing something that was a loser outisde of just a few states like opposition to the CRA. In my opinion that was more of a deviation from the strategy, as opposed to an embrace of it.
Logged
Small Business Owner of Any Repute
Mr. Moderate
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,431
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #54 on: March 22, 2013, 08:31:20 PM »

We sure got a lot of mileage out of something a dopey college kid said, huh?
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderators
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,118
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2013, 05:41:59 AM »

We sure got a lot of mileage out of something a dopey college kid said, huh?

It often requires someone make a fool of themselves to provide teachable moments. Tongue
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.037 seconds with 11 queries.