... And now Ben supports SSM

[Sbane]

But you supported Civil Unions. They provide the same benefits to gays as straights. So why the need for a change to supporting gay marriage?

Because it's insulting.  By not calling it marriage, I was passing a judgement on the validity of their relationship.  That's just not acceptable.

So why were you doing it? See, you are not 40 years old. You did not live in a world where the concept of a gay marriage would be laughed at in public. So why the need for the moderate heroism? I never supported civil unions. I supported gay marriage. You know why? Because I felt no need to be a moderate hero and could logically conclude that gays should get the same rights as straights, and that meant marriage. There were some older people who felt that people should have the same rights, but just could not accept gay marriage. They grew up in a different time. It was hard for them to accept it. What is your excuse?

Also, what is your opinion of marijuana legalization? Should we do it as a nation? Or should we just decriminalize it so that people don't go to jail for it?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Because in my mind, "marriage" could only be between a man and a woman. I know it's an unsatisfying answer, and you don't think a 15 year old from a liberal area who belongs to a religion that is accepting of homosexuality would hold that view, but that's my thought process.  It obviously has changed.

I generally don't care about weed.  My inclination is to not send people to jail for it; if legalized, tax it like cigarettes.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

WHO. CARES.

Glad to have you on the right side of history, Ben.

[King]

This is like the Fall of the Iron Curtain.

[Napoleon]

Why attack Ben? We should welcome him.

[Sopranos Republican]

Why attack Ben? We should welcome him.

I certainly welcome him, I once too held that position, but came to realize a few months ago that, as Ben said, while civil unions give gay people the same rights, it still casts judgement on their relationship, as not equal, or somehow not important enough to be called marriage, when it is. Everyone deserves the same rights under the law, and that's why this fight has become increasingly important to me. So yes, congratulations Ben, and hopefully many more will come over and join us.

[Napoleon]

We like to think that politicos take positions that people support but the reality is that people take positions that politicos support. Hence today's polarization in the Fox News and blogosphere era. While those of us who always supported gay marriage might fail to understand this phenomenon, its hard not to notice the rise in public support following the activism of people Governor Cuomo or the position changes from Bill Clinton, Joe Biden and President Obama.

Ben is an average voter.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Why attack Ben? We should welcome him.

Why are people fixating on this? - it's a positive move, he's explained himself very well and clearly... not that he had to.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

If people such as BRTD composed any substantial part of the Democratic Party- it'd be where the Greens are

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

This thread has outlived its usefulness by now, hasn't it?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Why attack Ben? We should welcome him.

Why are people fixating on this? - it's a positive move, he's explained himself very well and clearly... not that he had to.

No his reasoning made no sense. If he was a 50 year old from some more conservative religion it might, but for someone of his demographic, it doesn't.

[patrick1]

BRTD- holding a forum member to a higher standard than the President he was such a fanboy of.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

BRTD- holding a forum member to a higher standard than the President he was such a fanboy of.

You don't seriously think Obama ever sincerely opposed SSM, do you?

(FWIW, that's my point, I don't think Ben did either.)

[patrick1]

BRTD- holding a forum member to a higher standard than the President he was such a fanboy of.

You don't seriously think Obama ever sincerely opposed SSM, do you?

(FWIW, that's my point, I don't think Ben did either.)

Why wouldn't I? I and countless others went through the same evolution on the issue.  The tipping point on this really didn't come until recently.  People hold all sorts of conflicting ideas on a range of issues. When you believe you were wrong, you admit so and carry on.

[Mr. Morden]

BRTD- holding a forum member to a higher standard than the President he was such a fanboy of.

You don't seriously think Obama ever sincerely opposed SSM, do you?

He may have when he was much younger, assuming he ever gave it any thought.  I mean, how many people on Earth supported it before, say, 1990?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

BRTD- holding a forum member to a higher standard than the President he was such a fanboy of.

You don't seriously think Obama ever sincerely opposed SSM, do you?

(FWIW, that's my point, I don't think Ben did either.)

Why wouldn't I? I and countless others went through the same evolution on the issue.  The tipping point on this really didn't come until recently.  People hold all sorts of conflicting ideas on a range of issues. When you believe you were wrong, you admit so and carry on.

Barack Obama is a Harvard educated guy in a liberal church that has been supporting it for a long time, he also spoke out against Prop 8, which really makes no sense if you oppose SSM and not civil unions since California also had a civil unions statute that was unaffected. Also he called for repeal of DOMA long before last year.

BRTD- holding a forum member to a higher standard than the President he was such a fanboy of.

You don't seriously think Obama ever sincerely opposed SSM, do you?

He may have when he was much younger, assuming he ever gave it any thought.  I mean, how many people on Earth supported it before, say, 1990?

Actually Obama supposedly DID support it in some 1995 campaign statement. I'd be willing to bet he was never sincerely opposed while in elected office.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Why attack Ben? We should welcome him.

Why are people fixating on this? - it's a positive move, he's explained himself very well and clearly... not that he had to.

No his reasoning made no sense. If he was a 50 year old from some more conservative religion it might, but for someone of his demographic, it doesn't.

I know you don't spend time with people who think/act differently from you... I know at half a dozen people my age (which is also your age) - who changed from Civil Union to full equality. This isn't as shocking or unusual as you seem to think.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Why attack Ben? We should welcome him.

Why are people fixating on this? - it's a positive move, he's explained himself very well and clearly... not that he had to.

No his reasoning made no sense. If he was a 50 year old from some more conservative religion it might, but for someone of his demographic, it doesn't.

I know you don't spend time with people who think/act differently from you... I know at half a dozen people my age (which is also your age) - who changed from Civil Union to full equality. This isn't as shocking or unusual as you seem to think.

Well yeah, I live in Minneapolis. I doubt conservative Republicans in Provo, Utah meet many people with different views either.

[Napoleon]

I dont even meet many people with views...I guess if I did I would talk to them about politics, and wouldn't need to come here.

[Miles]

Why attack Ben? We should welcome him.

[Antonio the Sixth]

All right guys, I'm not exactly the greatest fan of Ben's politics myself, but attacking him for changing his views on SSM is utterly ridiculous. There are, what, tenths of millions of Americans who only a couple years ago opposed it and would now be fine with it. Is that so strange to assume Ben happened to be one of them?

We've had people who went from anarcho-capitalism to left-communism, and now we're blaming someone for changing his mind on an issue everybody is changing their minds on? WTF?

[Mr. Morden]

There are, what, tenths of millions of Americans who only a couple years ago opposed it and would now be fine with it. Is that so strange to assume Ben happened to be one of them?

Yes, but how many of those tens of millions challenge BRTD's assumptions about how demography perfectly predicts preferences on political issues?

[afleitch]

Leave Ben alone (and Bushie for that matter) People are often late in getting there but at least they made it. It's our posters who still hold out against it despite the movement of society and despite posting on a forum where at the very least, a third of the forumites are LGBT. That deserve's our criticism.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Leave Ben alone (and Bushie for that matter) People are often late in getting there but at least they made it. It's our posters who still hold out against it despite the movement of society and despite posting on a forum where at the very least, a third of the forumites are LGBT. That deserve's our criticism.

^^^^

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

So, you're bringing up a quote from three years ago. Very clever, Zack.