A year on: Forum approval of President François Hollande

[Franzl]

His party's rampant anti-Germanism is becoming slightly tiring.

Don't even dare to complain after you built Euro and EU to favour your country. It's fully deserved.

The euro wasn't even a German idea. And the euro's make up was largely determined by France. It wanted a country like Italy in to provide a counterbalance to the north while arguing against all political underpinnings from the get go. If Germany had gotten its way, we'd have had a smaller, more politically united eurozone. So please spare me these sort of ludicrous accusations.

I wouldn't bother trying to reason with him on this.

[Hash]

Its also a matter of the alternatives. Would Segolene Royal or Martine Aubry had done a better job?

I remember many of the French posters being really negative about Aubry.

What do you think now. Was he the best PS had?

Segolene Royal should not be allowed to be county dog catcher, even less President. She had no chance of becoming President anyway, but if for some horrible reason she had won, she would have run the country into the ground and she would probably have been run out of office by angry mobs by now.

Martine Aubry would have faced the same sh**t and she hardly seems more competent than anybody else in the PS, but unlike Flanby she has a spine and she would probably have been a bit better at projecting authority (which is another of Flanby's weaknesses: the guy projects absolutely 0 authority over anything). But while she's been a good mayor, her time as minister of labour indicates that she would have peddled the same old leftie bullsh**t.

Wrong chart to prove your point. Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Austria spend about as much and they're not up sh**t's creek. If you wanted to prove the point you're trying to make, you should post some chart about deficits or public debt.

And the PS' solution isn't really "more of the same". Beneath the Molletian veneer of anti-Germanism and anti-austerity stuff, the government's policy is austerity. I'm not sure why everybody is taking the PS' latest anti-German bullsh**t seriously. Please read about Guy Mollet. Or Mitt'rrand's first term after 1983.

Did the PS' past policies (under Mitt'rrand and Jospin) contribute to the sh**tfest? Absolutely. But so did every right-wing cabinet since Giscard.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

And, you know, the international economic slump and the general eurozone crisis thing, which has become as bad as it has because of certain awful misjudgments at crucial stages...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The tendency to moralise this kind of thing is really irritating, though.

[Insula Dei]

Somewhat approve, I suppose.

[MaxQue]

Wonderful chart. So, countries with high spending include Danemark, Finland, Belgium and Sweden, which are all going well.

But, sure, the right insists they reduce spending. Like, oh, let's see, Spain actually has less spending than Germany! Surely it's a good model!

The neoliberals are just using the crisis to get tax cuts and dismantle the welfare state. It's simple at that, and you should be ashamed of being fooled by them.

[Franzl]

Using government spending as a % of GDP doesn't tell you very much about the budget situation in each country.

Denmark obviously has high tax rates to fund everything their welfare state offers.

That said, most of the southern countries that are in big trouble have not been willing or able to properly collect revenue. Add a high degree of corruption, dysfunctional political systems and a lot of stupid spending, and it's only natural that you get into trouble at some point.

I like state spending as much as the next person, but you have to able to pay for it. Short-term deficit spending excluded, you can't go on like Greece or Italy forever and not expect consequences.

To pretend that Germany is the cause of all their problems, I'm sure, makes it more comfortable and convenient for you, Max, but it's not exactly an honest way of portraying the Euro problem.

Oh, and before you start complaining again that the Euro was rigged in Germany's favor by Germany itself, I think you should inform yourself better on how the currency came to be. (And I'm the first person to admit that the currency has been beneficial to our economy.)

[MaxQue]

I never said than Germany built things on purpose to help themselves, but they clearly sligned things in a way where it would benefit themselves first of all, which isn't a problem in itself.

The problem is than the system benefit themselves and blame others for being in trouble because of the same system. The only solution is to transform the way the country works in the same way than Germany, to be able to not be hurt by the current system.

But, there is issues to that.
1. I don't think it's even possible or sustainable.
2. It's in clear opposition to democracy.
3. German system has its own problems. Sure, economists and plutocrats like it, but there is a downside to that (workers cumuling jobs, low wages and Hartz IV forcing people to work in underpaid jobs for which they are overqualified, being the European equivalent of cheap labor (the good thing to do would be to force business to pay workers more so they would be willing to work)).

[Franzl]

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Alright. Your last comment sounded slightly different to me.

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.

All I would like you to acknowledge is that these countries have severe internal problems such as massive tax evasion and corruption that greatly contribute to their inability to be competitive with northern Europe.

Sure, the system as it is takes away the primary way they would have (at least temporarily) solved their problems if they had their own currency.

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This is probably the greatest problem. I'm not sure the economic interests of Germany and Greece (or similar countries) will ever be the same, and I'm afraid that what benefits one will always be to the disadvantage of the other.

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And this is where I agree with you most. I think there need to be massive wage increases here. Raising our wages to an appropriate level would be the best thing that could be done for everyone - both for the German worker and for the competitiveness of the workers in other countries.

If I vote left-wing this September, it'll be because of this.

[MaxQue]

Sure, corruption and tax evasion are a massive problem in Greece. Less sure in other countries (less aware, but I'm sure corruption is a big problem in Italy.)

Also, Greece only has tourism as a major industry. That won't make enough jobs for all the workers. Some effort is needed to relaunch the private economy. Spain and Italy are better on that front, but there is still issues in many areas.

The West needs to accept than the manufacturing jobs lost aren't coming back (either they left for Asia, either they were automatised) and countries should focus to replace them.

I truly believe than industrial era is finished and than we are entering a tech and services one. The transition isn't going well, the government job is to ensure it is going the smoothest possible, not to just shy away, to try to save the industrial era by cutting social net  or to go into a race to the bottom to be more competitive.

[Beet]

And this is where I agree with you most. I think there need to be massive wage increases here. Raising our wages to an appropriate level would be the best thing that could be done for everyone - both for the German worker and for the competitiveness of the workers in other countries.

Precisely.

The only sense I could see that Germany and Greece' interests would be the same are that they are both affected by the same business cycle. That is, a slowdown in Germany would negatively impact Greece's ability to increase its exports, whereas the crisis in Greece contributes to the general crisis which is having negative business cycle implications in Germany as well. I think we're beginning to see evidence that stagnation and disinflation are becoming region-wide.

[Peter the Lefty]

Somewhat disapprove.  Would be strongly were it not for SSM.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I remember many of the French posters being really negative about Aubry.

The only one really negative about Aubry was Fab, who is very right-wing and certainly not a reference to judge politicians on the other side of the aisle.

Aubry certainly has the reputation of being more of a "party politician" and maybe more rigid in certain aspects, but she also strikes me as much more concrete and focused on getting stuff done as opposed to useless fluffy bullsh*t.

[politicus]

I remember many of the French posters being really negative about Aubry.

The only one really negative about Aubry was Fab, who is very right-wing and certainly not a reference to judge politicians on the other side of the aisle.

Aubry certainly has the reputation of being more of a "party politician" and maybe more rigid in certain aspects, but she also strikes me as much more concrete and focused on getting stuff done as opposed to useless fluffy bullsh*t.

I know Fab is a right winger, so it must have been more people than him. I am too lazy to look it up, but it was stuff about her extreme temper, selfishness, throwing fits if she didnt get her way and being unable to get along with journalist and fellow members of her party.

Maybe Hash hated her and it just got blown out of proportion in my memory.

The negative stuff in here surprised me because from what I read I tought Aubry was the best of the bunch.
So your evaluation is close to the one I had before the election of a more efficient politician than Hollande.

[Insula Dei]

Aubry certainly was the best of the bunch. I don't think that's really disputable.

[Dereich]

Something I just saw that really applies to this: BVA poll: Sarkozy 29%, Le Pen 24%, Hollande 20%

[wan]

People miss Sarko already.

[Wake Me Up When The Hard Border Ends]

Strongly disapprove.

[Hash]

People miss Sarko already.

That's not actually true. If you notice the "one year later" presidential polling we've been seeing, Sarko is only a few points (1-3) above his first round showing from April 2012 while Panzergirl is the one showing the biggest improvement. The people who voted Sarko in May still love him, and there are a few swing voters back on his side now, but by and large we're not seeing any big Sarko nostalgia from most people.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I remember many of the French posters being really negative about Aubry.

The only one really negative about Aubry was Fab, who is very right-wing and certainly not a reference to judge politicians on the other side of the aisle.

Aubry certainly has the reputation of being more of a "party politician" and maybe more rigid in certain aspects, but she also strikes me as much more concrete and focused on getting stuff done as opposed to useless fluffy bullsh*t.

I know Fab is a right winger, so it must have been more people than him. I am too lazy to look it up, but it was stuff about her extreme temper, selfishness, throwing fits if she didnt get her way and being unable to get along with journalist and fellow members of her party.

Maybe Hash hated her and it just got blown out of proportion in my memory.

The negative stuff in here surprised me because from what I read I tought Aubry was the best of the bunch.
So your evaluation is close to the one I had before the election of a more efficient politician than Hollande.

Yeah, I understand why people dislike Aubry and I'm not fond of her or anything, but she was clearly the best of the bunch. This just illustrates how pitifully weak the 2012 PS field was... You had Flamby whose main campaign arguments were being "normal", having lost weight, and being the "anti-establishment" candidate despite having led the party for 11 freaking years. You had Ségolène the certifiably insane cult leader. Montebourg the populist megalomaniac of the day with his "deglobalisation" bullsh*t. Valls the "look how moderate I am!!!" attention whore. Baylet... no comment. So yeah, considering all this, Aubry was the only rational choice.

[windjammer]

Strongly approve

[後援会]

Somewhat disapprove.

I'm strangely impressed by Mali.