Which alternative science group is the most harmful?
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  Which alternative science group is the most harmful?
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Poll
Question: Which "alternative science" group is the most harmful?
#1
Holocaust deniers
 
#2
Climate change deniers
 
#3
Creationists
 
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Total Voters: 61

Author Topic: Which alternative science group is the most harmful?  (Read 3152 times)
John Dibble
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« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2013, 10:41:49 PM »

First thing you learn in Philosophy 101... you can neither use religion nor science to prove or disprove the other.

Well, unless religion makes a claim that's actually testable by science...
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dead0man
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« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2013, 11:33:14 PM »

Obviously the GM haters are by FAR the most harmful as we can actual point at the many many thousands, potentially millions of deaths they have already caused.  The three options here have murdered minimal people.

I'm pretty sure there are some 90-something holocaust deniers puttering around in Argentina who have killed people.
Sure, maybe a few dozen at most.  But anti-GM people have killed many many more.  Likely millions.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2013, 12:39:44 PM »

Obviously the GM haters are by FAR the most harmful as we can actual point at the many many thousands, potentially millions of deaths they have already caused.  The three options here have murdered minimal people.

I'm pretty sure there are some 90-something holocaust deniers puttering around in Argentina who have killed people.
Sure, maybe a few dozen at most.  But anti-GM people have killed many many more.  Likely millions.

Absolutely agree.
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Niemeyerite
JulioMadrid
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« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2013, 09:23:33 AM »

Creationists, they've been ruling the World since Theodosius took power.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2013, 09:27:05 AM »

Ummm... No mention of anti-vaxxers here?

(One of these days I should go here and rant on the MMR-Autism pseudo-link, but believe me, you don't want me to do that)
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BluegrassBlueVote
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« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2013, 11:48:12 AM »

Education? You mean private Christian schools? Private schools have the right to teach what they want, and should go unmolested.

Creationists have tried and continue to try to spread their ignorance into public school curriculum.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2013, 12:29:47 PM »

Education? You mean private Christian schools? Private schools have the right to teach what they want, and should go unmolested.

Creationists have tried and continue to try to spread their ignorance into public school curriculum.

What practical harm does this cause other than the facts being wrong?
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shua
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« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2013, 01:09:10 PM »

Obviously the GM haters are by FAR the most harmful as we can actual point at the many many thousands, potentially millions of deaths they have already caused.  The three options here have murdered minimal people.

I'm pretty sure there are some 90-something holocaust deniers puttering around in Argentina who have killed people.
Sure, maybe a few dozen at most.  But anti-GM people have killed many many more.  Likely millions.

where have anti-GM people killed millions?
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BluegrassBlueVote
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« Reply #58 on: May 20, 2013, 02:26:14 PM »

Education? You mean private Christian schools? Private schools have the right to teach what they want, and should go unmolested.

Creationists have tried and continue to try to spread their ignorance into public school curriculum.

What practical harm does this cause other than the facts being wrong?

How is that not a big deal to you? It's deliberate misinformation at best... and propaganda at worst.

Would you be fine with an advocacy groups that demanded for spontaneous generation or flat Earth theory to be presented as fact in your son's biology courses? Those have as much credibility as the belief that our planet is 6,000-years-old.

"Other than the facts being wrong..."
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #59 on: May 20, 2013, 09:25:15 PM »

Education? You mean private Christian schools? Private schools have the right to teach what they want, and should go unmolested.

Creationists have tried and continue to try to spread their ignorance into public school curriculum.

What practical harm does this cause other than the facts being wrong?

How is that not a big deal to you? It's deliberate misinformation at best... and propaganda at worst.

Would you be fine with an advocacy groups that demanded for spontaneous generation or flat Earth theory to be presented as fact in your son's biology courses? Those have as much credibility as the belief that our planet is 6,000-years-old.

"Other than the facts being wrong..."

Because the effects of the incorrect information are basically nil. Believing or not believing in evolution means diddly squat for 99% of the population, including most of the medical/scientific community. I'd put it on the same level as string theory or quantum mechanics. The engineer can disbelieve it and still build a perfectly acceptable bridge.

Contrast this with certain ethical or historical views, which have far more practical effects on students. Telling a 16 year old that there is no difference between having a baby alone & out of wedlock & having a baby while married is far more harmful than telling them the Earth is 6000 years old.
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BluegrassBlueVote
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« Reply #60 on: May 20, 2013, 09:39:18 PM »

Well, for one, instructing children to deny basic scientific theories and accept non-scientific ones will probably make them more likely to join the anti-vaccination loonies that have been mentioned in this thread.

You're really trying to say that there's nothing potentially harmful to society which could stem from replacing the teaching of evolution in public schools with creationism? Nothing at all?

And then there's the whole constitutional problem of it, plus the fact that there are literally tens of thousands of religiously-inspired theories throughout human history that have attempted to explain the Earth's formation and would have rightful claims to be taught alongside Christianity's version.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2013, 10:45:35 PM »

Do IQ/race fanatics count as an 'alternative science group?'
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #62 on: May 20, 2013, 10:50:26 PM »

Creationists, they've been ruling the World since Theodosius took power.

Most Romans and Greeks (except for the Epicurians and some other groups) were "creationists" albeit substituting Zeus, Jupiter, or Sol Invictus for the Triune God.
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dead0man
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« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2013, 11:13:02 PM »

Obviously the GM haters are by FAR the most harmful as we can actual point at the many many thousands, potentially millions of deaths they have already caused.  The three options here have murdered minimal people.

I'm pretty sure there are some 90-something holocaust deniers puttering around in Argentina who have killed people.
Sure, maybe a few dozen at most.  But anti-GM people have killed many many more.  Likely millions.

where have anti-GM people killed millions?
Africa and south Asia.  link
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snowguy716
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« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2013, 08:51:07 PM »

Dead0man.. that's where people like you need to get out the messaging for GM crops.

Adding vitamin A to rice to improve nutrition is hardly damaging to the environment and only helps us... much the way adding vitamins to milk or cereal does...

Where the problem is, is with crops that are modified for resistance for proprietary herbicides, etc.

So, there's definitely a communication problem.  And companies like Monsanto would do well to advertise the more positive impacts of GM.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2013, 09:22:50 PM »

I voted earlier on this but never had time to comment. I clearly voted option 2: climate change deniers - much of that comes from invested corporate interest (fossil fuels) to deny the evident for material gain. That's far more overall harmful than the other two.

I don't consider holocaust denial, as appallingly outlandish as it is, to be an alternative science; an alternative science would be some nonsense like pseudo science - astrology, new age, etc.

Creationists are of a theological bent - what they think is not science, and actually I don't think they really understand science if they are trying to ram creationism into it. They might try depredations like intelligent design and they might try to sneak it under the door at schools, but they're not really a threat to anybody. They're pretty much known at this point.
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nolesfan2011
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« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2013, 09:14:22 PM »

Climate change deniers are bad, but literally denying the slaughter of millions of people is straight up ridiculous. Denying climate change is bad, but the holocaust is a much more emotional issue.

I agree, holocaust denial (and genocide denial in general) is far worse, creationists don't really affect actual scientific research anymore so it makes no difference, believe what they want, CC Deniers are bad, but I don't think their motives are morally reprehensible at least, they just buy into some junk science and excuse making, but I think most are tricked.
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