Sans Watergate, how do you rate Nixon?

[DevotedDemocrat]

If you were to ignore Watergate, how do you view Richard Nixon as President? Ignoring Watergate, was he a great President? Simply a good President? An Average President? Mediocre? Or Horrible?

And how would a Nixon Presidency sans Watergate compare to his immediate predecessors and successors--from Truman to Bush Jr.?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Well, he's to the left of Obama on economic issues, but he did sabotage the 1968 peace talks, and wage a secret war in Cambodia and Laos that helped Pol Pot, who is arguably worse than Hitler. Then again, Reagan and Bush Jr. have a ton of blood on their hands, too.

[TNF]

Still a criminal for his role in sabotaging the peace talks. Also awful.

[politicallefty]

Still a criminal for his role in sabotaging the peace talks. Also awful.

Despicable as that was, it wasn't during the Nixon Presidency.

I voted average. He took far too long with Vietnam and also vetoed good legislation that included the Clean Water Act and the War Powers Act. On the positive side, his 1974 healthcare proposal is something I would easily take now in hindsight. I recall reading that Ted Kennedy's biggest regret was not getting a deal on healthcare with Nixon.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Again, Watergate was the least of his crimes.

[TNF]

Still a criminal for his role in sabotaging the peace talks. Also awful.

Despicable as that was, it wasn't during the Nixon Presidency.

I voted average. He took far too long with Vietnam and also vetoed good legislation that included the Clean Water Act and the War Powers Act. On the positive side, his 1974 healthcare proposal is something I would easily take now in hindsight. I recall reading that Ted Kennedy's biggest regret was not getting a deal on healthcare with Nixon.

It helped cause the Nixon presidency. The man deliberately sabotaged peace talks to get himself elected, and then continued a war resulting in the loss of ~25,000 additional American lives.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Ultimately, mediocre.  He did some nice things (Environmental legislation, Native American relations, economics, etc.), but a lot of it was undeniably to preserve his image and legacy.

[courts]

i think that requires a very careful analysis of some of nixon's other policies. probably more so than i am capable of offering quite honestly. but i will try anyway. please forgive the very brief summary:

- he enacted his secret plan to end the vietnam war and showed how ahead of his time he was by adopting a surge strategy. that the us only saw 15,000 american and 500,000 vietnamese deaths following this decision speaks to his foresight and clear-eyed realism. president obama should take note. perhaps reinstate the draft for good measure as some civic minded progressives have suggested.
- he launched a humanitarian intervention in cambodia to stop it from falling to the communists. i think since vietnam and cambodia both fell to the communists we can conclude he was right about the domino theory.
- he tried to convince our friends the chinese to intervene in india and pakistan. it is too bad that they did not heed his wise advice, otherwise the us would likely not have as many people hurt by outsourcing today.
- he tried to reduce poverty in the black community by promoting humane birth control measures like sterilization (without paternalistic things like 'informed consent' laws) and abortion (which was of course, acceptable for blacks in his opinion). he also enacted policies that would give millions of young minorities guaranteed access to clothing, healthcare, food and free room and board.
- he passed landmark health reform legislation, creating the system of hmos that so many millions of americans enjoy today.
- he helped enact policies that put a stop to the horrific economic stagnation caused by unions after ww2. undoubtedly helped contribute to present day record corporate profits.
- he campaigned against excessive regulation, then wisely changed course and proposed dozens of new regulatory agencies, then attempted to veto them after a thorough cost-benefit analysis. today agencies like the epa are staffed full of pro-business individuals, with years of valuable experience working in business and government.
- he enacted price controls that were obviously very beneficial to the economy. grocery stores could barely keep up with new demand!
- he took the bold step of declaring a war on drugs, which has thus far cost approximately $1 trillion dollars.. this to me sounds like a small price to pay given all the lives touched by nixon. it really speaks to the successes of our post-1970s drug policy so many former drug users have not only quit, but even become president themselves.

so overall, like many historians looking at nixon's many accomplishments i would have to say that he was 'near great.' if only he had done more before being taken down by a disturbingly un-civil and un-neutral media. who knows what legislation nixon and his team of policy wonks could have given us.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

[Supersonic]

Good, though not by much.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Internet tradition insists that I post a link to some thread I made a while ago (3 and a half years... Good lord) before this discussion can any further.

Oh, and NDN (or whatever it is you prefer to be called now), you left out the dismantling of Bretton Woods, his attempts to bully the Fed into improving the economy in time for the 72' election and his diplomatic bungling following the Yom Kippur war (which was partly a cause of the oil crisis).

Also, secret bombing of Cambodia and Laos

[tmthforu94]

Had it not been for Watergate, I think he would be remembered as one of the best President's of the 20th century.

[morgieb]

His record was still fairly corrupt sans Watergate.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Had it not been for Watergate, I think he would be remembered as one of the best President's of the 20th century.

For what, exactly? Prolonging the Vietnam War for the pure reason of ensuring re-election? Inflating the economy with his fed and debt policies, thus exacerbating the oncoming economic decline known as the 1970's? Helping to betray America's position in the Cold War through the photo-op foreign policy known as detente? Listen man, I love him too, but only because he's hated, and if Nixon revivalism kicks in, that takes away the point of admiring him.

[perdedor]

Richard Nixon was a deranged, paranoid lunatic. Watergate was only further evidence of this.

[nolesfan2011]

Still a criminal for his role in sabotaging the peace talks. Also awful.

Yep, horrible.. besides Watergate he still drips corruption and powerlust to the point of damaging the country he was elected to lead.

[LastVoter]

Medicore

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You can't remove wategate for the obvious reason. It was a product of his inner core or lack thereof, his criminality and his paranoia that was exhibited in numerous and very damaging decisions that were far worse then any break in, buy hey, its like getting Capone on Tax evasion.

I do have sympathy for the man, don't get me wrong, but that don't change what he did to the country.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Watergate certainly was a big deal, and I don't excuse Nixon's role in covering it up, but aside from that, Nixon was a pretty good president.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  I wouldn't put him on the level of Washington or Lincoln or FDR (even without Watergate), but he certainly wasn't the villain that historians have made him out to be.  The truth is, Nixon was a very smart man and was a master of political strategy, on par with Lee Atwater, James Carville, or Karl Rove.  That may not have always translated to victory (like against JFK in 1960 or against Pat Brown for governor of California in 1962), but you still can't deny his tremendous skill at balancing on the political tightrope.  (They didn't call him "Tricky Dick" for nothing, after all.)  And as for his paranoia, he probably was a little paranoid, but his infamous "enemies list" was actually created by his aides, not him.  And in terms of policy, he was pretty darn good.
So, in all, one of our better presidents without Watergate, but that obvious flaw is a major blow to his record.

[HoosierPoliticalJunkie]

Nixon was an epic FF on civil rights, so that counts for something.