FIFA Confederations Cup 2013 - Official Discussion Thread

[Velasco]

Let's recall the 1950 FIFA World Cup final: Uruguay vs Brazil. Luckily for Brazilians, the final will be played at Belo Horizonte and not at the Maracaná Stadium.

Also, another recall for the 2013 UEFA European Under-21 Football Championship Final, which took place on June 18 at Teddy Stadium, Jerusalem: Spain 4- Italy 2.

Seemingly, our young players want to perpetuate the rule of the Evil Empire in world's football. At least, they'll try.

[Velasco]

Interesting theory, Phil. Soon we'll see if it's valid. You'll have to concede that Spain's rule in the World's football has supposed a slight improvement in Italian and German styles, which is a great thing for the game, regardless what country wins the tournaments

españa bitches

Proud bitches.

[Velasco]

I won't blame you if you can't appreciate the good playing style, but Italy and Germany have improved (and I like specially the latter). In the case that it's only nationalism and if we win the semis (and hopefully the tournament) I'll be sorry for you.

[Velasco]

See, Phil, people who understand the game don't despise "that disgusting team", it's just the contrary. Hooligans are another question. What's what you cannot stand, a team who never gained a World tournament before and now plays better than the rest and mark the trend? Really stupid. On the other hand, nothing lasts forever but, unlike the average sweet and tender hooligan, that won't affect my life, believe me.

[Velasco]

You mean to tell me I'm not a fan or don't understand the game because I dislike a team? I don't think you understand sports, my friend. Now one can certainly dislike a team but still appreciate their contributions. I'm just not that way when it comes to the Spanish.

You are obviously a fan and a great supporter of Italy, but when you say certain things I doubt you really understand the game, sorry. It's not a question relative to your personal tastes; it's understandable that you prefer a style of game to another. Now then, when you say  " the whole world despises to ... ", apart from not being true reveals ignorance or envy. I would never speak this way about the Italy team, in spite of not being a fan of the classic catenaccio style. I use to despise hooligans.

A small example of which not the whole world hates us, though you will be upset with it:

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22932625

[Velasco]

Definitely it's envy, Phil. It's pretty clear when you mention "arrogance". Rivalry it's OK, but you go a step further. It's not like you must admire the way your rivals play, you can even consider that the game style is boring. I think Brazil is much more boring nowadays, but I would never deny the quality of Brazilian players. You don't even have a consistent argumentation, just ranting. It's OK, but if what you consider "most of the world" includes people without a clue and haters, I wouldn't care too much. Also, envy and bitterness are not good for your health.

[Velasco]

I like how they play, I can appreciate the style that you hate. Even when they not play at 100%, (because no team actually can) and they abuse of horizontal passing, you can see details that you don't see in other teams if you have an eye for subtleties. I'm far away from being a bandwagon fan, among other reasons because I'm far from being a blatant nationalist. There's nothing in the players' or coach's attitudes that you can call arrogance, such claims lack of consistence. In addition, I like the fact that we don't have top stars, like Maradona or Zidane, just humble and generally underrated players with great quality.

[Velasco]

Definitely it's envy, Phil. It's pretty clear when you mention "arrogance". Rivalry it's OK, but you go a step further.

No, he just takes it very seriously. Which is bound up with his overall character.

Seeing the Italian-Spanish rivalry in action is always hilarious because for some strange reason the rest of Europe is barely aware of it.

Yes, of course. I feel sometimes like Snowstalker regarding how amusing is to read people like Phil and Lief getting pissed off. On the other hand, the Evil Empire needs to be defended from time to time, though I usually restrain myself to intervene and bleeding them when we win and they lose. It's just a game that I like to watch when it's well played.

[Velasco]

I like football, but it's not the main issue in my life.  What is amusing is when the excess of passion leads to disproportionate reactions. I felt sad when Barça was crushed by Bayern in the last Champions League, but I'm not the one who's whining because German clubs want to establish the III Reich in the European Football.

[Velasco]

That distinction between "fans" and "casual observers" is amusing too. See, there are different types of fans as well, some of them love and understand the game and others act as plain hooligans. Try to avoid the latter characterization and open yourself a bit. On the other hand, not all "casual observers" are ignorants or lack of passion, and watching sport games with a certain distance and perspective is as respectable as your approach.

[Velasco]

I'll take lectures from people that have a clue (i.e., not you) as to what kind of fan I am. Your implication that there are two types of fans and I'm not the kind that loves or understands the game but instead acts like a hooligan is the definition of ignorance.

This thread is for discussing the tournament. We've had enough of your arrogant routine. Discuss the tournament as a fan or dismiss yourself. You've exhausted your other points.

You are ridicoulous, bro. People who loves the game is ready to recognize the merits of rivals when they are superior, which is not the equivalent of licking their boots -as you seem to believe- and it's the opposite of arrogance. You are not really discussing the tournament, just exposing your philias and phobias. I'm so arrogant that I will quote something related with the moral winners of the tournament that I found funny:

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jun/20/spain-tahiti-confederations-cup-live

It's not only a correct analysis of the match, but a sample of something you're lacking: sense of humour. I'm sure you would feel outraged if someone wrote "ignominy" after an Italy's landslide victory against an amateur team.

[Velasco]

No, the arrogance is your behavior, demanding people worship the team and cannot dare say that they despise them.

I'll restrain myself to reply except in this point. I don't pretend that you pay tribute. However, you are pretending that everybody hates "that despicable team". And it's childish despising a team or a style because you cannot stand that they win. I don't want to tell you how people felt when Italy was winning tournaments with that orthodox catennaccio philosophy. That was really a boring way to win, but at least most people conceded that Italy had a great defense and was an extremely competitive team, although some found catenaccio disgusting.

Apparently, you will never admit that it's possible to win with another set of values, despicable in your view. If you had a little notion of what means class or sportmanship, bro... but you tend to mix up your phobias with objectivity. You are acting here like an unthinking hooligan. That's all.

On the other hand, I think commenting a tournament has more to do with talking about aspects of the game. Something that I'd like to do in other circumstances. Don't worry, if Italy wins I will congratulate you.

[Velasco]

Everybody here is aware that Spain sometimes has problems with finishing.  Even people -without questioning the principles, because they are successful by the moment- criticize some "contemplative tendencies" when Spain abuses of passing game without hurting too much. There's no problem with that, it's just a comment about an aspect of the game.

And, of course, respect (not adoration) for rival teams was the point that I was pretending to remark.

[Velasco]

Can I take from your comments, Andi & Phil, that you both would be happy if Germany became World Champion in 2014 (which means, somebody, probably Spain, needs to take Italy out of the tournament first, as Germany vs. Italy is a hopeless case for Germany) ?

I'd be glad with a Spain vs Germany final in 2014 (or Spain vs Brazil) and then... que gane el mejor

It. Is. Boring. Me. And. Many. Others.

Many. People. Don't. Like. It.

Some. People. Like. It. And. Enjoy.

This reply is trolling, actually, but there's no other way with you (I.can.repeat.it.to.you.with. periods.in.between)

[Velasco]

What was that???
O.k., Spain is tired after 120 minutes against Italy. But I never expected Brazil to play so physical, so European. First a goal in Gerd Müller style, and then Neymar paying tribute to Wayne Rooney...

Brazil is playing in that physical and European style since years ago. It's no surprising at all. The extraordinary thing is how they performed that style on Sunday. Really spectacular (congrats for Brazilians on here, btw), probably the best Brazil's performance in years. I think the classical Brazilian style lasted until the 80s with players like Socrates or Zico. Spain was a disaster. Aside from the weariness, I believe that there were some tactical mistakes (strange, coming from Del Bosque) and an excess of confidence. Luckily, we won the European final in Women's basketball against France (80-79), but newspapers gave more space to Spain's crushing defeat at Maracaná. Some Madrid's newspapers didn't cover the basketball game in their front pages.